Forward Fade

[46YearOldSlinger]

I've read a number of reviews and discussions that use the term "forward fade" or "forward penetrating fade" and would like to clarify the terms. I've actually used these terms myself but it looks like others may have a different understanding than I. So... what is your definition of forward fade?

 

[whitefedora]

In an x and y axis. Let's assume you are throwing straight in the positive y direction. Forward penetrating fade would mean during the end of the flight when the disc is losing speed, the fade would still have some positive y direction and some negative x direction (assuming RHBH). A non forward penetrating fade would at some point be entirely negative x direction with zero positive y direction (again assuming RHBH).

 

[DougCrawford]

is it even possible to have non-forward penetrating fade?

 

[Agricolae]

is it even possible to have non-forward penetrating fade?

Yes. High stall shots can fade with a negative y-component.

 

[whitefedora]

is it even possible to have non-forward penetrating fade?

Definitely. It's possible for a disc to technically start going backwards. You just have to throw it nose up enough.

Most discs penetrate forward during the fade at the end of it's flight. Some do it more than others.

 

[The Hammer]

My definition is that it is a term invented to sell you more discs that inevitably do the same things as the discs you had previously.

 

[Jukeshoe]

My definition is that it is a term invented to sell you more discs that inevitably do the same things as the discs you have previously.

That's my sneaking suspicion as well.

I'll believe it when someone with enough DGR street cred tells me it's so...

 

[ToddL]

I think it's a misleading term. It's trying to capitalize on the difference between a hard fade and a soft fade (if those terms are any better). A Firebird or XCal will fly straight for a little while but then fade hard and nosedive quickly to the ground. Of course, the disc is still traveling forward during the fade. A TL, on the other hand, will have a more gentle fade. It won't hyzer over as quickly and will therefore be in the air for a longer time during its fade. Since it's traveling forward through the fade, I guess you could say it faded more forward than a Firebird.

 

[pickleprotector]

A forward penetrating fade is when a disc holds altitude as it pulls towards hyzer. As an example, a firebird is going to fall to the ground hard when it fades, while a teebird will descend more slowly and cover more forward distance during the fade phase of its flight.

 

[Timeetyo]

Definitely. It's possible for a disc to technically start going backwards. You just have to throw it nose up enough.

Most discs penetrate forward during the fade at the end of it's flight. Some do it more than others.

Pretty much this.

The thing is, assuming anything remotely resembling a normal golf line, every disc will START the fade as a forward penetrating fade. From there, there are several factors that go into how long it stays there vs hooking up hard. How high is the disc? What is the wind doing? Is it a firebird or a sidewinder?

Now I wouldn't describe my FB as a forward fade - but if thrown low, flat, and hard - it'll be still fading forward when it hits. Thrown higher - not so much. With the SW - its probably fading forward as it turned a bit before fading. If it had enough height though, it may be going fully sideways when it hits.


Given all these variables though it really comes down to this - how hard does the disc fade? Anything else is just marketing mumbo jumbo. I don't need to hear that this is a forward fade....just tell me (using innova's system, for example) is that fade number closer to a 0 or 1.... or a 2 or a 3.

 

[Jukeshoe]

Given all these variables though it really comes down to this - how hard does the disc fade? Anything else is just marketing mumbo jumbo. I don't need to hear that this is a forward fade....just tell me (using innova's system, for example) is that fade number closer to a 0 or 1.... or a 2 or a 3.

Quoted cuz it's worth repeating.

 

[burdphil]

My definition is that it is a term invented to sell you more discs that inevitably do the same things as the discs you had previously.

::cough::MVP::cough::

 

[ToddL]

Given all these variables though it really comes down to this - how hard does the disc fade? Anything else is just marketing mumbo jumbo. I don't need to hear that this is a forward fade....just tell me (using innova's system, for example) is that fade number closer to a 0 or 1.... or a 2 or a 3.

Pretty much.
Leopards (1 fade) and Sidewinders (1) have forward fade. Firebirds (4) and XCals (4) don't.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

^that's making it too simple though. If I talk to a new player and they have a very OS disc vs something stable its easy to tell them the OS disc will fade and go hard to the left when thrown RHBH while the stable less OS disc should continue forward and fly straighter once they get it up to proper speed, when put on a slight anny( straight finish vs flex) you cant just tell someone OH that's a 1 fade vs 3 fade!!!

Also given the plastic or weights even some identical molds have a softer fade or forward fade right off the shelf but its not like they are really any different in stability.

 

[JedV]

So the non-penetrating fade is a dump? The disc "dumps out of the air"?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

yeah, wants to get to the ground as soon as possible while fading out. Its no longer flying FW but finishing while other discs continue to fly FW throughout the entire finish and still don't ever turn over in the flight.

 

[Spinthrift]

I had never heard the term "forward fade" until I used it myself the first time I threw a PD. After its fade and skip I couldn't believe how much further the disc ended up ahead of where I expected it to be compared to Wraiths or Firebirds or other molds I was throwing at the time. But I used the term to include the direction of the skip after the disc hit the ground. Other molds skipped more to the left on a BH throw. The PD skipped more forward.

 

[slowplastic]

I also kind of think of it as dumpy fade vs. banking fade. Does the disc go to like a 10-20 degree hyzer angle and bank over smoothly...or does it drop its wing almost 45 degrees and cut straight for the ground? I realize height thrown at can be a bit of a factor here, and the difference between a fade rating of 2/3/4 (if "trustworthy" rating) is pretty much as you would expect...but this is how I think about it.

Does the disc go out, then pretty much straight left and down? Or does it go out then drift to the left? If you threw that same disc downhill would it go 100'+ further? Or would it fade at the same point and not really gain any extra distance forward? (For example bomb a Teebird and a Firebird downhill and compare to your flat ground distance)

 

[ZAMson]

Agree with dumpy vs forward traveling shallow fade. Some of it is the disc obviously, most of it is the thrower and the throw. High spin throwers get more forward fade in my observation. Given enough height, even forward-fading discs will dump out. Hopefully ZJ chimes in because his spin is ridic... his Roc shot stands out as super forward fading, and will spin stationary on the ground.

Also, DGR cred goes out the window once you start making your own discs I guess. At that point you become a lying huckster. Only the people chattering about advertising REALLY know what's up.

 

[DougCrawford]

Penetrating and dumping..... Hmmm.... I guess you can't do one while the other is occurring