Val drops Innova?

[holly7845]

It's fun to read all of these speculations about Innova, Val and how women get treated.
I'm sure most of you know, we aren't allowed to discuss the terms of our contract.

But as Val mentioned, she was denied countless honors that one should receive when they win a world title or two or three or four, or a few National Titles, or a few hundred tournaments or a distance contest.

The "honors" for men and women on the team aren't equal. Should they be? I don't know. I agree the female participant numbers aren't there, but we still pay the same cost to travel to the event, expensive entry fees and still dedicate hours, years, lifetimes to the sport.
So as a female, we invest the same amount of time, money and energy into improving our game and skills, but we aren't rewarded the same as the men? Seems unfair from our point of view.

 

[SD86]

And is there not a women's division in the DGWT this year?

Yup. Much to his chagrin, I'm sure. He probably doesn't want to deal with all the grief "one division, one champion" brought him last year.
The irony, of course, is that if he just said last year, "hey, it's a business decision, we can't afford it right now" and left it at that, he probably could have avoided paying the women pros for a few more years. Bummer for him.

Yes, an FPO was added to the DGWT for 2017. But my sense is that Jussi did not do this because he saw the error of his ways regarding women; IMHO he saw that the decision to essentially kick the women to the kerb and the condescending way he tried to excuse/justify it didn't work and caused a huge backlash... and maybe some men were going to boycott or not play the full DGWT schedule in support of their female colleagues? Yes that's just speculation, but IMHO adding the FPO for 2017 is a (too late) attempt to salvage a disastrous PR issue, and maybe to save the DGWT itself...

 

[SD86]

It's fun to read all of these speculations about Innova, Val and how women get treated.
I'm sure most of you know, we aren't allowed to discuss the terms of our contract.

But as Val mentioned, she was denied countless honors that one should receive when they win a world title or two or three or four, or a few National Titles, or a few hundred tournaments or a distance contest.

The "honors" for men and women on the team aren't equal. Should they be? I don't know. I agree the female participant numbers aren't there, but we still pay the same cost to travel to the event, expensive entry fees and still dedicate hours, years, lifetimes to the sport.
So as a female, we invest the same amount of time, money and energy into improving our game and skills, but we aren't rewarded the same as the men? Seems unfair from our point of view.

Note to Holly: first, thanks for chiming in. Second, put out more videos of yourself playing!

 

[93EXCivic]

What does this even mean?

I'd say ideals won the last election, and corruption lost.

.

if you want to talk politics there is a politics forum


Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[DavidSauls]

It's fun to read all of these speculations about Innova, Val and how women get treated.
I'm sure most of you know, we aren't allowed to discuss the terms of our contract.

But as Val mentioned, she was denied countless honors that one should receive when they win a world title or two or three or four, or a few National Titles, or a few hundred tournaments or a distance contest.

The "honors" for men and women on the team aren't equal. Should they be? I don't know. I agree the female participant numbers aren't there, but we still pay the same cost to travel to the event, expensive entry fees and still dedicate hours, years, lifetimes to the sport.
So as a female, we invest the same amount of time, money and energy into improving our game and skills, but we aren't rewarded the same as the men? Seems unfair from our point of view.

I don't know what "honors" means in this context. Nor do I know the details, from players' perspectives or Innova's.

But there is no inherent value in being a good disc golfer, or even a champion.

Athletes, in any sport, aren't rewarded for the time, money, or energy they put in---other than their own pleasure at being champions. They're rewarded for the entertainment value that causes other people to watch and pay attention to them, and the marketing value that sponsors get by reaching those other people.

I have no idea whether anyone is being treated fairly, of course. Perhaps women's disc golf isn't as economically valuable, from a spectator/sponsor perspective, and Val's got ideas how to make it so.

 

[JasonM163]

The female disc golfers world champions 20x or never do not deserve the same things the men do. It's about $$$ for a business. If Mcbeth is generating 50x the cash for innova that Val is well then....... Why would she get everything he does. Her quitting isn't doing anything for women. She needs to get over it and realize this isn't male vs female discrimination it's a business and should be operated like one.

 

[lyleoross]

The problem is, if the sport is 92% men and 8% women, so the manufacturers give men preferential treatment, more sponsorships, bigger cuts of the tournament prizes, and easier access to representation, do you think that the fraction of women playing will increase or decrease?

Pandering to the majority is how you keep the majority in control. The bottom line on the spreadsheet is not where fairness is found, as doing things unfairly is often more profitable.

That is, for example, why the government regulates business in the broader world. If left unchecked, workers would be exploited, the environment would be ravaged, and so on, because there's no good business case for treating workers right or preserving the environment. And if just one company does the right (and more expensive) thing, and the others do not, the others will stomp all over the company doing the right thing.

So yeah, doing the right thing for women will affect the bottom line negatively, but if disc golf wants fairness for women, it will cost money, and that is (pun intended) a hard sell. Doing the right thing is hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it all the time.

This isn't entirely accurate. The sport started long after women were openly accepted in athletics. The difference in participation isn't due to an emphasis on marketing to men or unfair pricing offered to men. There has been little marketing per say, and what is there has been fairly gender neutral. The sport is dominated by men because they took it up.

What you're now saying is that structurally, to create a market, the women's side needs to be catered to by the manufacturers. But women had the same opportunity to come to the sport that men did. They didn't. Only if the manufacturers see an untapped market, that is worth investing in, should they do what you're suggesting. Nothing has suggested that market is there.

If I make a product that a segment has shown little interest in, I'm not going to spend effort on that segment. I'm going to focus on the segment that has shown past interest and grow it.

Now, if the issue was fair access and support, well that is a different issue. If we had clubs that excluded women, thus preventing their entry into the sport, then demanding that women get more support would be correct. But I've not seen that.

 

[Finny]

The female disc golfers world champions 20x or never do not deserve the same things the men do. It's about $$$ for a business. If Mcbeth is generating 50x the cash for innova that Val is well then....... Why would she get everything he does. Her quitting isn't doing anything for women. She needs to get over it and realize this isn't male vs female discrimination it's a business and should be operated like one.

Leave McBeth aside. He's a special case. Should Val get less than Sexton? She's relatively MUCH more successful.

 

[Finny]

I think Innova should have offered the Star Tern to Val as a tour series disc.

If it sold well, they could have then made it a full on signature disc for her, which would have meant more potential income for her.

Totally agree. The Tern was the way to go, and Innova blew it.

 

[holly7845]

Well imagine this. If any woman athlete received the same amount of "support" and marketing that Paul does, maybe she could earn the supporting company more money than Paul does. We don't know if sh can, because this doesn't exist. That's the point.

 

[SD86]

With that said I think Innova should have offered the Star Tern to Val as a tour series disc.

If it sold well, they could have then made it a full on signature disc for her, which would have meant more potential income for her.

Totally agree. I've also suggested they could've given her the Roadrunner, and I think it would've sold well despite "having a girls' name on it".

But I remind everyone that from Val's statement, it very much appears she told Innova she was leaving them BEFORE she won the fourth world title. So maybe there are other reasons she chose to go...

 

[Finny]

Totally agree. I've also suggested they could've given her the Roadrunner, and I think it would've sold well despite "having a girls' name on it".

But I remind everyone that from Val's statement, it very much appears she told Innova she was leaving them BEFORE she won the fourth world title. So maybe there are other reasons she chose to go...

Good point. They should have done more long before this summer.

 

[DanJon]

Well imagine this. If any woman athlete received the same amount of "support" and marketing that Paul does, maybe she could earn the supporting company more money than Paul does. We don't know if sh can, because this doesn't exist. That's the point.

Well McBeth didn't just walk into a big contract.

He had to prove he could sell product (and win).

Usually companies aren't in the business of putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Well imagine this. If any woman athlete received the same amount of "support" and marketing that Paul does, maybe she could earn the supporting company more money than Paul does. We don't know if sh can, because this doesn't exist. That's the point.

Huh?

 

[Stable]

Well imagine this. If any woman athlete received the same amount of "support" and marketing that Paul does, maybe she could earn the supporting company more money than Paul does. We don't know if sh can, because this doesn't exist. That's the point.

http://fortune.com/2015/07/15/male-models-pay/

This article is a good metaphor.

 

[PMcBeth]

Leave McBeth aside. He's a special case. Should Val get less than Sexton? She's relatively MUCH more successful.

from my knowledge Val and Nate get the exact same contract.... so in my eyes Val gets more than Nate since her making Top 5 in all events is more likely.

Both have a tour series discs as well. Nate's firebird out sell's my discs at times.

 

[corndog23]

Firebirds outsell starfires sooooo...

 

[phrumphkin]

Firebirds outsell starfires sooooo...

She chose a champ TL for her tour series disc, the starfire is her signature disc..

 

[corndog23]

Fair point. I wasn't aware of the difference. Either way, seems kinda crumby to go with a starfire for a signature disc. I don't know anyone personally that throws them. Now Terns...that's another story.

 

[Anon]

Well imagine this. If any woman athlete received the same amount of "support" and marketing that Paul does, maybe she could earn the supporting company more money than Paul does. We don't know if sh can, because this doesn't exist. That's the point.

What world do you live in?