The Twitch of the Hips

[seedlings]

So you're saying bracing has to do with weight? I was under the impression that bracing has to do with momentum. Anyone else care to speak to this?

Also I still think that "strong brace" is a strange construct. You hear people say "brace yourself," not "strong brace yourself." You hear "brace for impact," not "strong brace for impact."

Not sure a still frame would help since it isn't clear whether you were able to make a GIF that stopped at the correct point.

The nanoseconds between the brace and the strong brace are literally the most important part of proper form for those who can throw over 500'.


Sarcasm

 

[RandyC]

This is getting quite tiresome, you cannot produce a decent throw using your method and it literally shows in your own effort to throw the disc. You ignore everything that you cannot answer and your only argument is "It must be like this because I am unable to do it."

Since we are ignoring all biomechanics, lets discuss just raw distance. Why is it that I am able to throw as far as you from a one leg with a putter when you are using so-called correct kinetic sequence and a high-speed driver?

 

[RowingBoats]

Whichever muscle groups are involved is a topic for discussion on its own. The important part is that the rotation of the hips begin just before the brace. This is important because if a player is led to believe that no rotation at all happens until brace then they have troubles learning how to rotate and get the hips involved and the right sequencing invloved. This was simply proven by your one leg throw. In that throw your hip never leads rotation like it should. It's also the reason why you can't balance solely on your front leg and swing a bat with power. The hip rotation is what leads the rotation and it must be initiated before the weight shift occurs.

I just don't understand. There seems to be some deliberate line in the sand you have drawn, and simply want to do battle here. Judging by other responses, you seem to evoke the same reactions pretty often, but this thread just keeps going, and going...and I think I know why.

You clearly do not believe it, but there are a lot of people here who understand exactly how you are thinking and swinging, because that is something they also did. There is a certain built in sympathy learning this particular swing, because, oddly enough, as complex as all of this sounds when you start...retrospectively, this concept is so absurdly simple. Once you start to implement the concept of building lateral momentum, bracing and extending the lead knee to crush the hit, a whole lot of clicks go off. Suddenly you have an actual path forward with all of this. Finding ways to get your body to generate more lateral momentum to use at the end is actually quite natural feeling. At least this is how it has all felt to me.

I really just urge you to come on out of Plato's cave. Stop watching slow motion videos on the cave wall to attempt to back up a preconceived notion. Come out of the cave and start moving your actual body around with an open mind, and you might be a bit surprised.

 

[NoseDownKing]

This is getting quite tiresome, you cannot produce a decent throw using your method and it literally shows in your own effort to throw the disc. You ignore everything that you cannot answer and your only argument is "It must be like this because I am unable to do it."

Since we are ignoring all biomechanics, lets discuss just raw distance. Why is it that I am able to throw as far as you from a one leg with a putter when you are using so-called correct kinetic sequence and a high-speed driver?

He's going to tell you that you have developed the muscles to throw far.

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[UhhNegative]

Can everyone just stop posting in this thread? Here's the big picture of what's happening: Rodeo is spouting nonsense no one believes and is unimportant anyway, everyone is actually trying to explain how a good throw works, Rodeo is not listening. This isn't productive or useful for anyone.

 

[RoDeO]

This is getting quite tiresome, you cannot produce a decent throw using your method and it literally shows in your own effort to throw the disc. You ignore everything that you cannot answer and your only argument is "It must be like this because I am unable to do it."

Since we are ignoring all biomechanics, lets discuss just raw distance. Why is it that I am able to throw as far as you from a one leg with a putter when you are using so-called correct kinetic sequence and a high-speed driver?

I doubt you can throw a putter balanced on one leg as far as I can throw a driver from two legs.

 

[NoseDownKing]

I doubt you can throw a putter balanced on one leg as far as I can throw a driver from two legs.

Are you saying that he is not in balance?

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[RoDeO]

Are you saying that he is not in balance?

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I'm saying he can't throw a putter as far balanced on his front leg only as I can from an x step.

 

[RoDeO]

This is what I am advocating. It's called hip rotation initiation before brace.

 

[RowingBoats]

This is what I am advocating. It's called hip rotation initiation before brace.

Again, there are two options.

1.) You believe this clip shows that in the lateral move into the brace, incidental hip rotation will occur. No one has argued against this, and no one gives a ****.

2.) You believe he is initiating rotation with the rear leg and will continuously rotate from this frame. Everyone has told you this is wrong, in 100 different ways, over and over. You are wrong.

 

[RoDeO]

Again, there are two options.

1.) You believe this clip shows that in the lateral move into the brace, incidental hip rotation will occur. No one has argued against this, and no one gives a ****.

2.) You believe he is initiating rotation with the rear leg and will continuously rotate from this frame. Everyone has told you this is wrong, in 100 different ways, over and over. You are wrong.

Logically, your 1 and 2 positions contradict. We know that once hip rotation begins it continues without stopping into release of the disc. Therefore, if #1 is true then you must be wrong with #2 and therefore I am correct. If I am wrong, then you must agree that what you said in #1 is wrong.

 

[bsammons]

Logically, your 1 and 2 positions contradict. We know that once hip rotation begins it continues without stopping into release of the disc. Therefore, if #1 is true then you must be wrong with #2 and therefore I am correct. If I am wrong, then you must agree that what you said in #1 is wrong.

Since you are very set in your method then I feel a few questions couldn't hurt to be asked.
1. Where does the power come from? Of the throw? Be specific, with specific muscle groups and how they work.
2. Why does it matter so much when the hip begins rotation?
3. What is the axis of rotation in your opinion?

 

[RowingBoats]

Logically, your 1 and 2 positions contradict. We know that once hip rotation begins it continues without stopping into release of the disc. Therefore, if #1 is true then you must be wrong with #2 and therefore I am correct. If I am wrong, then you must agree that what you said in #1 is wrong.

Like I said, there is a certain sympathy that many people have regarding this topic, because there is an undeniable retrospective 'OH' that occurs. You sure do your best to nuke that sympathy though.

Good luck.

 

[RoDeO]

Since you are very set in your method then I feel a few questions couldn't hurt to be asked.
1. Where does the power come from? Of the throw? Be specific, with specific muscle groups and how they work.
2. Why does it matter so much when the hip begins rotation?
3. What is the axis of rotation in your opinion?

I will be honest in that I don't know exactly the names of every muscle in the body and how they work but when I practice throwing distance I feel a lot in my gluteus and hip muscles. I also feel it in my quads, lower back and lats and deltoid on the throwing side. There's really a lot of muscles involved but those are the ones I feel the most when I throw. My legs are usually the tiredest after throwing. I have noticed that I have gotten larger more defined muscles around my butt, upper legs and hips since I started playing. I don't really feel anything in my arm, I just feel like it's being pulled through.

It matters to know about when hip rotation begins because a lot of new players all arm their disc and have a hard time getting the hips involved. If you get the hips involved at the right time you can feel how the body can pull the disc rather than wonder if your hips do anything. I started pkaying right and threw all arm and had a hard time getting the hips to engage. Then I threw left and instantly felt the difference.

The axis of rotation is around the spine area.

 

[RowingBoats]

The axis of rotation is around the spine area.

Here comes round 10. Rodeo's new thread "The Line of the Spine".

 

[timothy42b]

While this topic is argumentative, it does point out some areas most of remain confused about including me.
The ball golf videos posted recently seem to agree. In a two arm swing lateral motion of about an inch precedes a violent torso rotation with the axis of rotation aligned with the front leg and hip and accompanied by strong torque forces from the front leg.
Exactly how to accomplish that is not clear.
So it's not unexpected there's some misunderstanding.

I suspect the counterbalance of the rear foot may be to resist the side force of rotation.

For me it doesn't matter yet. Concentrating on landing on the front leg feels like it's finally starting to take after a couple years working on it, and I'm getting enough more distance to par some holes I could only bogey. I don't get any of that rotational whip yet, still working.

 

[sidewinder22]

This is what I am advocating. It's called hip rotation initiation before brace.

Paul doesn't twitch until he is in strong brace with his front hip rising. The only way the butt can turn like that is if you are braced on the front side resisting going targetward pushing away from the target.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[sidewinder22]

Wish the audio was better quality on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkP-wbZ_47Q#t=3m20s

 

[seedlings]

While this topic is argumentative, it does point out some areas most of remain confused about including me.
The ball golf videos posted recently seem to agree. In a two arm swing lateral motion of about an inch precedes a violent torso rotation with the axis of rotation aligned with the front leg and hip and accompanied by strong torque forces from the front leg.
Exactly how to accomplish that is not clear.
So it's not unexpected there's some misunderstanding.

I suspect the counterbalance of the rear foot may be to resist the side force of rotation.

For me it doesn't matter yet. Concentrating on landing on the front leg feels like it's finally starting to take after a couple years working on it, and I'm getting enough more distance to par some holes I could only bogey. I don't get any of that rotational whip yet, still working.

All of these movements and drills are not prescriptions for success. Rather, they describe motions that your body wants to use to 1) keep itself balanced and 2) meet the brain's instructed power and line. Bodies are built similarly, but not identical, so there is a range of motion, or variance of mechanics on either side of the ideal.