Discs and the quality issues...

This is why the industry hasn't improved since it's birth; it's deemed acceptable in the disc golf community to get something close to what you paid for or maybe you'll get lucky and find a good one or one you like. There has been so much variance over the last couple decades that it's just accepted that what gets pumped out is entirely random. I see countless threads about people discussing the issue with parting lines over many many years and what has changed?

I think your statement that disc golfer's complain a lot is inaccurate; it should be that disc golfers are push overs and kind of lazy when it comes to pushing for improvements. And I'm actually a huge Teebird fan, by far my favorite disc and I don't think there is a perfect Teebird or even a perfect one for me. My only expectation when buying one is that I receive the weight, color, and plastic type that I ordered without any glaring flaws in the surface. Like I stated earlier in this post, I just bought 3 new ones, all have quite obvious issues in the plastic. Would that be acceptable to you? Good luck going to a physical store now thumbing through those boxes looking for that magical disc you seek when they were all sold online while you were putting gas in your car to get there.

It's clear that cost is your biggest concern and keeping that low outweighs receiving better products. Typically cost isn't affected that much if things are done correctly; less defects typically offset the cost associated with process improvement. Think about it; what other industry doesn't package its products? Disc golf manufacturer's just toss discs in a cardboard box and ship them off, the only time I've seen a disc packaged was when it went to a non disc golf retailer like Dick's. Disc golf seems to be the only industry that hasn't improved with the times; for goodness sake they're still stamping discs by hand. That's about as laughable as it gets; any decent manufacturing company would have automated that process decades ago. They've been stagnant likely since they started and it's all very evident now as they are making no progress toward catching up on supply. What else is in massive shortage still due to covid??? Even with the entire world racing out to buy toilet paper all at once, that industry was able to meet the demand sooner than later.

Look at Discmania now; Innova can't meet their demand so nothing available from their original line. Why? Because Innova hasn't grown or improved in any way; they've been content just getting by and producing a so so product for many years. Not only does this hurt them but it hurts the discmania's, infinite discs, and the millenium's that rely on them for their products. Not to mention the customer's that are switching to other brand's because they can no longer buy the discs they've grown to love.

After reading that lost post I feel like a lot of issues in the disc golf industry center around old vs new. Those that have been playing for a good amount of years that have figured out a way to work around all the issues, where as the people that are newer to the game are starting to realize just how goofy and behind it is in relation to how any other successful business is run today and are trying to drive change within it.

Look at all the online retailers today that have begun weighing, taking pictures, and describing the parting line on the discs they're selling. Why are they doing this? Because it's very clear that people today care what they're getting and also because it's very clear that the manufacturer's can't be trusted to do something as simple as weigh a disc accurately or produce 100 of a like mold that all fall within a small range of variation. We act like they're making discs by hand; one by one; and each one is special and unique. lmao Why even have flight numbers or weights if the train of thought is that you just need to find one that works for you or hopefully get lucky to find one you want. If that's the case we don't need those things; we can just say the disc goes left, right, or kind of straight and the rest is up to you to figure out.

What hasn't changed is disc golfers (by and large) being cheap. I'd love consistent plh, but I'm not sure if I'd be willing to pay for it. Depends how big the premium is.

If you really want improvements to happen, you need to show the manufacturers that there's a market for what you're proposing. Maybe one of those online petitions would work. Ask people to sign on if they would be willing to pay $xx for discs with consistent plh and no flashing.

Then the disc manufacturers can run the numbers and see if they can make an acceptable margin in that scenario.

Or put your money where your mouth is and do it yourself. You seem to have this all figured out. Show Innova and the rest that they don't know their own business by taking their market share with superior discs.
 
Been waiting since black friday for a good place for this gripe:

When prodigy came out with their 'Ace line' of cheaper discs I waited till black friday and bought several to try while they were on sale. The stock Ace line discs are stamped with their name ie P model S and a redundant descriptor, ie "stable putt and approach".

Of the 5 or so I purchased, I think only one had a 'correct' stamp where the descriptor matched the name. For example - one M model US (an UnderStable Mid) has the wording "overstable mid range", the other MmodelUS says "stable mid range". Same went for the FmodelOS and one of the drivers.

I wanted to believe it was intentional but when I got the MmodelUS marked as 'overstable' it made me think something must be up. It cant be a coincidence the discs look and feel cheaper and are made in china...

no more Ace line for me
 
Cars and anything that uses computer chips. I can't get the tires I want to buy. I've been waiting months for upgraded wheel studs for my car. I bought a lightweight battery for my car and waited 7 months to get terminal adapters. I had to change brands of deodorant and peanut butter. I can't buy my favorite soft drinks because of an aluminum shortage. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Missed the shortage part. In addition shortages continue for powdered metal, steel bar stock, PLASTIC PELLETS, etc. We're looking at lead times of 52 weeks(!) for anything using a pcba. Not out of the woods yet.
 
I do understand the frustration of getting bad products from ordering online, but I don't think blaming the manufacturer is the answer either. Blame the store for sending bad products, the store should blame the manufacturer. Maybe the store is doing shady things behind the scenes with a disgruntled warehouse manager, who knows.

The fact that most replies on here say quality has not been an issue for them might be important to note...
 
I mean this is the industry that brought us Destrulcans. Destrulcans were a real thing. They ran Destroyers with the Vulcan top, stamped them as Destroyers and sent them out. They sent out a lot of them. The TeeDevil is out now and is what Destrulcans were. So there is really no hiding what happened there.

Innova so far as I know never admitted at the time that the Destroyers had the wrong top. They never did any sort of refund, recall, nothing. If you got one, you had one. Destroyers were the biggest driver in the game at the time (probably still is) and were hugely popular. Nothing happened, though. We just waited for Innova to run a new batch with the right top.

That's the quality control standard for making golf discs. You can't even be 100% sure the disc has the right mold pieces. The QMS always had the Stingray wing and all of a sudden has the beaded Super Stingray wing for a run. The Stingray top wore out and they made Stingrays with the Cobra top and just stamped them Stingrays. Eagles for years could have the Eagle X or Eagle L wing; they switched back and forth willy-nilly with no warning. There is a long, long history of "somebody had too many lunch beers"-level screw-ups with golf discs. No manufacturer that I'm aware of has ever owned up to one of these screw ups; they just sell the discs.
 
Yeah, but those 'mistakes' were probably intentional, lol.
 
They've been stagnant likely since they started and it's all very evident now as they are making no progress toward catching up on supply. What else is in massive shortage still due to covid??? Even with the entire world racing out to buy toilet paper all at once, that industry was able to meet the demand sooner than later.

So I'm going to ignore the entire rest of this and focus just on this because the logic is severely misguided but something I've seen argued multiple times.

Toilet paper=There was a singular one-time rush to stock up on toilet paper, not to consume it. The industry WAS able to meet the demand relatively quickly...because all those people who stockpiled toilet paper all of a sudden didn't need to buy any for a long time.

It's VERY easy to catch up to demand when a small segment of the population temporarily stockpiles a product that they won't even use up any faster. A small segment increases their demand over a very short period, then that same group reduces their demand over subsequent periods. It's super easy to catch up with just normal production. And toilet paper companies fell into "essential worker" categories to stay open and keep producing, unlike some disc golf companies.
 
I know it has been mentioned before, though not sure if in this thread. A major and likely primary reason for differences between runs is the plastic. This is not a QC issue, it is a raw materials issue. The disc manufacturers are small to medium size businesses. I bet a single order or plastic pellets at a large injection molding company would dwarf what the disc manufacturers order at one time. They do not have the buying power to purchase a giant lot of the same plastic that will last so long that you will not see variations in the plastic for years. Plastic used to make discs is the leftovers. It is what these companies can get. They are almost certainly not ordering enough quantity from their supplier to demand this shipment be exactly the same as last shipment. As always, i like to point out i am being slightly hyperbolic, but my point still stands.
 
I mean this is the industry that brought us Destrulcans. Destrulcans were a real thing. They ran Destroyers with the Vulcan top, stamped them as Destroyers and sent them out. They sent out a lot of them. The TeeDevil is out now and is what Destrulcans were. So there is really no hiding what happened there.

Innova so far as I know never admitted at the time that the Destroyers had the wrong top. They never did any sort of refund, recall, nothing. If you got one, you had one. Destroyers were the biggest driver in the game at the time (probably still is) and were hugely popular. Nothing happened, though. We just waited for Innova to run a new batch with the right top.

That's the quality control standard for making golf discs. You can't even be 100% sure the disc has the right mold pieces. The QMS always had the Stingray wing and all of a sudden has the beaded Super Stingray wing for a run. The Stingray top wore out and they made Stingrays with the Cobra top and just stamped them Stingrays. Eagles for years could have the Eagle X or Eagle L wing; they switched back and forth willy-nilly with no warning. There is a long, long history of "somebody had too many lunch beers"-level screw-ups with golf discs. No manufacturer that I'm aware of has ever owned up to one of these screw ups; they just sell the discs.

It's also one of the rare industries where those things happen, and a LOT of people react with "awesome, I can't wait to pay a ton of money for that mistake, who has some?".
 
I'll add my 2 cents to the thread...

I estimate I have bought 200-300 discs, mostly from Disc Golf Center, but from other online merchants as well.

I don't remember ever receiving a disc with a visible imperfection or problem. I have weighed most of my discs and the listed weight was always right on the money.
 
I know it has been mentioned before, though not sure if in this thread. A major and likely primary reason for differences between runs is the plastic. This is not a QC issue, it is a raw materials issue. The disc manufacturers are small to medium size businesses. I bet a single order or plastic pellets at a large injection molding company would dwarf what the disc manufacturers order at one time. They do not have the buying power to purchase a giant lot of the same plastic that will last so long that you will not see variations in the plastic for years. Plastic used to make discs is the leftovers. It is what these companies can get. They are almost certainly not ordering enough quantity from their supplier to demand this shipment be exactly the same as last shipment. As always, i like to point out i am being slightly hyperbolic, but my point still stands.

Variances in weather also have to have an impact. It would be cool to see one of the manufacturers do a study on how things like humidity affect the molding/cooling/curing processes.

Like...

"We ran this series of discs on this day with X% humidity and then another series of the exact same mold on this day with a X% change in humidity."
 
Did you not see that $20 bill with a banana sticker on it?
https://www.11alive.com/article/new...tion/507-bcc75914-4565-4f57-aca8-a1fdb6fefce4
We're not the only ones.

That is funny. Coin collecting is my other hobby, so this is in the same family of collecting. Never did i think the two would meet.

With coins, currency, and other more traditional collectables, an error is usually rare and makes it more valuable. There is obviously a segment of disc golfers who also collect rare runs/stamps in the same way.

The thing is, the utility of how different runs of disc fly is pretty unique. I mean ideally, there would be three different Firebird types that you could get any time (just using as an example) regardless of plastic preference. The FAF run, an average one, and something similar to the 2015 Sexton (maybe even a 4th that is super flat but has an intentionally lower plh to make it more like a Sexton but no dome). But until the day companies can do something like this, i think the vast majority of dedicated disc golfers who seek out a specific flight from a mold will be content to accept the variations and look at it as a good thing.
 
Variances in weather also have to have an impact. It would be cool to see one of the manufacturers do a study on how things like humidity affect the molding/cooling/curing processes.

Like...

"We ran this series of discs on this day with X% humidity and then another series of the exact same mold on this day with a X% change in humidity."

Of course that would be awesome and i would love that, but we all know that just is not worth the time and effort it would take for someone to do that for business purposes. It would have to be someone in the industry that is just more curious than anything because the amount of us that actually care about that sort of thing is probably in the low thousands. I would bet that study has probably been done at some point, it just will never see the light of day.

No doubt the MVP guys could probably tell you off the top of their head how weather effects a run of discs, but that is industry knowledge i am sure they would not be willing to share. But we can still dream.
 
Last edited:
I bought a bunch of the Paige Pierce ESP Nukes in early October last year. Those discs have really nice dome, and nice glide. I like them a lot. So, when I saw that retailers are now stocking a new run I ordered a bunch more, eager to see the dome on these.

My box of ESP Nukes came in today. They are all pancake flat. :|
 
Crabapillar:

Feel free to start your own DG company, complete with better quality control and greatly improved consistency. You obviously think that's a segment of that market that's underserved, if not completely untapped.

Be the Mercedes to their GM, Ford, Toyota, and Chrysler. Take the high road, with premium designs, premium material, and above all else, premium consistency, catering to the discriminating player, while the others fight it out amongst themselves selling cheap plastic to the masses.

Raise your venture capital and good luck to you. I hope you're back here in five years telling us how you owe your success to all of us for not demanding more from the industry back in the day.

Otherwise, give it a rest.
 
Last edited:
Did you not see that $20 bill with a banana sticker on it?
https://www.11alive.com/article/new...tion/507-bcc75914-4565-4f57-aca8-a1fdb6fefce4
We're not the only ones.

I wouldn't consider that an "industry" though...though certainly a collector market. The difference I was getting at is that people want disc screw-ups to use/throw. It's a "defect" that people want to use just as much as the actual "correct" product. If they just said "we're going to release this specific type of disc" people would love it...it's only a defect because it's unintentional...but people still want it (for more than just the rarity of having a one-of-a-kind item like the dollar).
 
So I bought 3 DX Wraiths last week. They are F2, so it isn't really realistic for me to expect them to be perfect, but the rim shape to all 3 discs is different.

I actually find that exciting because it is an opportunity to confirm/learn what makes a disc fly a certain way for me.
 
Top