2014 BHMO

[bombmk]

Can't be supported by a moving object (rope) when throwing. TD might be able to allow this as a special condition.

Where is that in the rules?

As far as I can tell, there is no restrictions against that. Only that you cannot move it. I'll agree that the distinction is probably irrelevant in this case. But lets be precise.

 

[sisyphus]

Where is that in the rules?

As far as I can tell, there is no restrictions against that. Only that you cannot move it. I'll agree that the distinction is probably irrelevant in this case. But lets be precise.

Really sorry for the thread drift, but yeah, I spent some time last night trying to find the details. Seems as if you may hold on to a supporting object behind your lie, provided it doesn't move or bend, and especially not branches, bushes, and the like. It seemed unclear to me if you are using something that extends from in front of your lie to behind it. I did have all supporting points, including my grip on the rope, behind my lie, but it really looks like a grey area.

And in the end, I'm pretty sure we're talking about an uncalled stance violation that, if called twice, might have impacted the crappy score of a guy who finished in the bottom half in Intermediate...

 

[Aim For The Chains]

What is the rope doing there in the first place?

 

[joshmo65]

Can't be supported by a moving object (rope) when throwing.

My legs support me and move when I throw. Is this not legal?

 

[Puckstopper]

don't be so defensive- just because they were slow getting scores up doesn't mean it was not a great event. however, posting scores in a given time frame is one of the things you commit to do when you sign the sanctioning agreement so people have a right to expect it.

Not defensive at all. I've got nothing on the line here, as I was in Michigan this last weekend closing up my cottage and playing a round at the Deerfield complex in Mt. Pleasant (which I recommend VERY highly if you're ever in central Michigan BTW). It just annoys me when Rob claims to have participated in helping out with a tournament, but has no appreciation for the fact that sometimes crap happens. I have no idea what did happen, and was looking forward to keeping track of happenings on my home course just like he was. But you don't see me lacking perspective like he clearly does. In fact, it appears Rob has had an axe to grind since 2012, and is taking every opportunity to do so. Forgive me if I feel the need to call him out on it.

Actually Gen X. I'm 44. I don't hide under a false name either. My login is my name. What's your name? I presume I'm speaking with Paul Jay based on the same attitude you gave me in 2012. That attitude which passes responsibility of not following PDGA standards that REQUIRE scores to be posted after each round and instead attacks a person with the lame 'what have you done for me lately' response.

Thanks, but in today's age of identity theft I'd just as soon not divulge any more information than I have to on the intrawebs. I'm sure you understand. But I will assure you that I'm not Paul Jay, who does more to grow the game in a month that it sounds like you've EVER done. In fairness, Paul does more than me to improve the game on a bad day, so you're right, I'm not one to talk there. Heck, I'm not even a member of the local club. I'm just a guy who shows up and plays the courses.

You have much more of a sense of entitlement than I expect of someone older than me though. Kind of sad that an adult doesn't have better things to do on a holiday weekend than watch disc golf on the internet. You have my (sincere) sympathy if circumstances kept you apart from your family and friends, but to tear down a tournament several states away isn't a great way to spend your time either. Maybe getting a round in an checking the scores later would have been a better idea? It worked for me anyway.

Is the only reason NBA, NFL, MLB players play is to see their own stats when the game is over? No one else cares but the players?

I'm bitching because as a Professional game, the spectators, present or otherwise, should have results as expected. 24 hours and still counting to see what the payouts where.

#HashtagsAreForFoolsandTweens

NFL: Mainstream sport with a revenue stream in the billions
NBA: Mainstream sport with a revenue stream in the hundreds of millions
MLB: Mainstream sport with a revenue stream in the billions

Disc Golf: Fringe sport with a revenue stream in the tens of thousands.

Rob, face reality. We are a fringe sport played by a minority of people. A minority of people who play disc golf are even aware that there is a professional circuit, and of those who are aware I seriously doubt that even 50% ever check the scores, let alone are looking for live updates. So If I'm TD'ing a tournament and am short on volunteers due to illness, bad weather or any other reason I'm going to skip out on the live scoring and make sure I have enough spotters and people in the field helping out the players get through their rounds as quickly as possible. You need to remember that most of the people helping out are not being compensated at all. In the other sports you mentioned there are full time team employees handling the stats, scorekeeping, etc. so your analogy was fatally flawed from the outset.

 

[Cgkdisc]

What is the rope doing there in the first place?

Not uncommon for heavy duty ropes to be added to holes with steep or potentially slippery climbs where there are hillsides (in this case), ravines or river banks.

 

[sisyphus]

Not uncommon for heavy duty ropes to be added to holes with steep or potentially slippery climbs where there are hillsides (in this case), ravines or river banks.

Hey to get back to the thread topic, I just want to thank Paul and all his crew for having a rope there. They knew it was needed to get up and around that hole. It's a beautiful course (best temp course I've ever played). They had volunteer spotters (even in a four hour deluge!!!), tons of water everywhere needed (especially when it was hot on Saturday). The guys and gals who helped out were everywhere in carts, tourney central was the place to be with food, ice cream (!), vendors, extra fun events all weekend, and so on. I can't say enough good stuff about how nice the BHMO is. Shame the weather didn't cooperate better for 'em, is all...

 

[Rob Martin]

Puckstopper - you win.

 

[m1shootr]

Hey to get back to the thread topic, I just want to thank Paul and all his crew for having a rope there. They knew it was needed to get up and around that hole. It's a beautiful course (best temp course I've ever played). They had volunteer spotters (even in a four hour deluge!!!), tons of water everywhere needed (especially when it was hot on Saturday). The guys and gals who helped out were everywhere in carts, tourney central was the place to be with food, ice cream (!), vendors, extra fun events all weekend, and so on. I can't say enough good stuff about how nice the BHMO is. Shame the weather didn't cooperate better for 'em, is all...

+1 I agree.

 

[bombmk]

My legs support me and move when I throw. Is this not legal?

Your legs are not part of the course.

 

[Halcón]

I always thought that Brent Hambrick was an old hippy who lived his life and died at an old age.

He was only 34 and died of leukemia.

I hate cancer.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Not defensive at all. I've got nothing on the line here, as I was in Michigan this last weekend closing up my cottage and playing a round at the Deerfield complex in Mt. Pleasant (which I recommend VERY highly if you're ever in central Michigan BTW). It just annoys me when Rob claims to have participated in helping out with a tournament, but has no appreciation for the fact that sometimes crap happens. I have no idea what did happen, and was looking forward to keeping track of happenings on my home course just like he was. But you don't see me lacking perspective like he clearly does. In fact, it appears Rob has had an axe to grind since 2012, and is taking every opportunity to do so. Forgive me if I feel the need to call him out on it.


Thanks, but in today's age of identity theft I'd just as soon not divulge any more information than I have to on the intrawebs. I'm sure you understand. But I will assure you that I'm not Paul Jay, who does more to grow the game in a month that it sounds like you've EVER done. In fairness, Paul does more than me to improve the game on a bad day, so you're right, I'm not one to talk there. Heck, I'm not even a member of the local club. I'm just a guy who shows up and plays the courses.

You have much more of a sense of entitlement than I expect of someone older than me though. Kind of sad that an adult doesn't have better things to do on a holiday weekend than watch disc golf on the internet. You have my (sincere) sympathy if circumstances kept you apart from your family and friends, but to tear down a tournament several states away isn't a great way to spend your time either. Maybe getting a round in an checking the scores later would have been a better idea? It worked for me anyway.

A couple of comments:

1. The event is required as a part of the agreements that the tournament director signed to host the event to post these scores in a timely manner. Timely being whatever time they agree to in the agreement. I'm pretty certain with an NT it is a fairly quick turnaround. If the TD can not do it due to personal circumstances, he should have someone capable who can do it for him. This is a part of general planning in running an event on any level, really. When I ran B Tiers, even as unimportant as they are relative to an NT, I had a dedicated second who could take my spot in the event of illness, and backups assigned to take care of responsibilities. As a TD you have a contract signed in which you agree to do certain things.

2. Your response to his wanting to watch an event on a weekend is completely and totally over the top and asinine. I enjoy sitting back on the occasional weekend and watching some sports. My Dad does. My Uncles do. My friends and their families do as well. Hell, we had a crew crowded around a cell phone during the World Championship the other week at a diaper party. We all abandoned the festivities (well, not our beer. We definitely didn't abandon our beer) and crowded around and kept close watch on the live scoring and the live video feed.

And if I'd been at home, and not out in a social situation - I'd have been checking up on it anyway. Mind you it is more personal for us with a big event like that since Rick's family is local and he was in a playoff... but we do the same thing for many of the NTs if possible. We sit back and check it out.

NFL: Mainstream sport with a revenue stream in the billions
NBA: Mainstream sport with a revenue stream in the hundreds of millions
MLB: Mainstream sport with a revenue stream in the billions

Disc Golf: Fringe sport with a revenue stream in the tens of thousands.

Rob, face reality. We are a fringe sport played by a minority of people. A minority of people who play disc golf are even aware that there is a professional circuit, and of those who are aware I seriously doubt that even 50% ever check the scores, let alone are looking for live updates. So If I'm TD'ing a tournament and am short on volunteers due to illness, bad weather or any other reason I'm going to skip out on the live scoring and make sure I have enough spotters and people in the field helping out the players get through their rounds as quickly as possible. You need to remember that most of the people helping out are not being compensated at all. In the other sports you mentioned there are full time team employees handling the stats, scorekeeping, etc. so your analogy was fatally flawed from the outset.

There's no reason to denigrate a fan for asking the tournament director to do what he's contractually obligated by the PDGA to do to build respectability with consistent live scoring. And it DOES build respectability - being technologically up to date has in fact turned into a sign of a forward thinking sport that is looking for growth, so this does matter for our NTs.

 

[Jukeshoe]

A couple of comments:

1. The event is required as a part of the agreements that the tournament director signed to host the event to post these scores in a timely manner. Timely being whatever time they agree to in the agreement. I'm pretty certain with an NT it is a fairly quick turnaround. If the TD can not do it due to personal circumstances, he should have someone capable who can do it for him. This is a part of general planning in running an event on any level, really. When I ran B Tiers, even as unimportant as they are relative to an NT, I had a dedicated second who could take my spot in the event of illness, and backups assigned to take care of responsibilities. As a TD you have a contract signed in which you agree to do certain things.

2. Your response to his wanting to watch an event on a weekend is completely and totally over the top and asinine. I enjoy sitting back on the occasional weekend and watching some sports. My Dad does. My Uncles do. My friends and their families do as well. Hell, we had a crew crowded around a cell phone during the World Championship the other week at a diaper party. We all abandoned the festivities (well, not our beer. We definitely didn't abandon our beer) and crowded around and kept close watch on the live scoring and the live video feed.

And if I'd been at home, and not out in a social situation - I'd have been checking up on it anyway. Mind you it is more personal for us with a big event like that since Rick's family is local and he was in a playoff... but we do the same thing for many of the NTs if possible. We sit back and check it out.

There's no reason to denigrate a fan for asking the tournament director to do what he's contractually obligated by the PDGA to do to build respectability with consistent live scoring. And it DOES build respectability - being technologically up to date has in fact turned into a sign of a forward thinking sport that is looking for growth, so this does matter for our NTs.

Well said. :thmbup:

 

[ChrisWoj]

Well said. :thmbup:

I'm getting soft in my old age. I remember when I used to be a caustic prick on these forums.

Scratch that, I'll probably be a dick to someone next week, don't want to get ahead of myself.

 

[Jukeshoe]

I'm getting soft in my old age. I remember when I used to be a caustic prick on these forums.

Scratch that, I'll probably be a dick to someone next week, don't want to get ahead of myself.

Yeah, we still don't like you... but we give credit where credit's due. :| :|

 

[biscoe]

I always thought that Brent Hambrick was an old hippy who lived his life and died at an old age.

He was only 34 and died of leukemia.

I hate cancer.

I was fortunate enough to meet Brent Hambrick before he died. His health was already an issue but he was as upbeat and pleasant an individual as you could ever hope to meet as well as genuinely committed to the growth of disc golf in an altruistic sense.

 

[Rob Martin]

Thanks Chris.

As info, NT's scores are supposed to be posted immediately after the round is complete.

They can be found here:

http://www.pdga.com/files/2014 PDGA Tour Standards.pdf

They state:

Inclusion of a requirement to upload unofficial results via PDGA Tournament Manager at different intervals depending on the Tier level of the event:
o NT – upload after each Round of competition
o A-Tier – upload after each Day of competition
o B-Tier – upload at the completion of the event
o C-Tier – upload within 24 hours of the completion of the event

I brought it up this year because back in 2012 when BHMO was an NT then, the same issue occurred. Same TD. I'll stop here before I do become a caustic prick, as much as I want to.

 

[Nasty Nate]

I was fortunate enough to meet Brent Hambrick before he died. His health was already an issue but he was as upbeat and pleasant an individual as you could ever hope to meet as well as genuinely committed to the growth of disc golf in an altruistic sense.

I wish I could have seen him throw a disc. I feel kind of bad not knowing anything about the namesake of my home course.

I once met a guy at the course who said he had played with Hambrick and even gone on a few tours/tournaments with him. This was after I saw this fellow hit the basket on hole 5 and then my friend and I caught up with him around hole 10 or 11. Name was Tom if I recall correctly. Nice guy.

Unfortunately I didn't make it out this year because of the pouring rain and then my brother was feeling sick so I had no one to go with. Hopefully I'll get to see McBeth here next year as well as the other top pros that graced our home town.