-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
2016 Am Worlds - Madison, Wi
- Thread starter dobbins66
- Start date
Elver
Hiestand
Token
Birds (would be above Token if not for the ungodly rough)
Cap Springs
This is assuming all courses from the longs.
I'm surprised Token is as far up most people's lists as it is. I feel like there's too much open hyzer fest type golf, which is odd, because it suits my game better.
Hmmm.
Elver
Heistand
Token
Birds
Cap
Elver and Heistand are 1A and 1B. It's only a few suble differences that made me like Elver better.
I enjoyed birds more, but I think token is better golf. They are very similar, but the much more forgiving rough of token combined with more trees for shot shaping give it an edge.
Cap isn't a bad course. It just isn't good either. Its one of the most unspectacularly average courses I've played in a long time.
I think it's 19-27 that give it that image. 1-18 are long in spots but the majority of holes have well shaped fairways that make you hit a line. That back 9 is pretty meh tho.
Birds is just as hyzer-fest thru a lot of the course as token 19-27. Pretty easy to just spike it out and all that brutal rough and not even have to worry about it much.
Yeah, I don't know what it is. I just really love playing Token longs. If Elver always looked like it did for Worlds, maybe it'd be above Token. But trust me, you guys saw the City courses in the best shape they've ever been in. Normally they look much worse, and you didn't have to deal with pedestrians at Elver either.
True enough. The other times I've played Elver, the pin positions weren't great, and there was people running up and down that damn hill. Both Elver and Hiestand are usually packed, as well.
Honestly, as close as it is (about and hour and a half), I barely ever play the Madison stuff. Between the traffic at the city courses, the rough at Birds, and Cap being meh, I'd rather just stay more local and play Rollin' Ridge, O'Hauser, Zobel, or Silver Creek.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
You should know that I stand with JC and Chuck on this. They aren't trying to justify, simply explaining the rules as they've always been interpreted by the PDGA. Like it or not. One of the best things about the PDGA is that they are flexible enough to consider change. They may change DQ MK, but that is a change in what they've always done and will open a huge can of worms.
My questioning on this topic and the debate is a learning process for myself. JC and Chuck are patient enough to play along with that, but they aren't wrong.
You can argue that the system as it has been followed is wrong, and I might even agree with you, but you can't argue that they PDGA hasn't been consistent. The only point of contention I have is that I think the language should be clearer. That is a pretty minor thing.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
BTW - if you go look at the stuff Steve loaded, you have the same problem. An Amatuer is moved to Professional status if they accept cash. Again, no definition of Amatuer in this case. No mention that this means you have to be a member. In no sport that I know of, except this one, do you have to belong to an organization to have amatuer status. You're an amatuer until you accept cash by my interpretation, then you become a professional.
If that is our definition, it should be written out - it may be.
JC, do you have the language for the notion that once you have a membership you are now in the system, or is that an unwritten rule? I've heard it before, but never seen it written.
It should be noted that the PDGA has grown organically. It shouldn't surprise anyone that this situation might occur, or even that it is bad, simply a growth process. This is what Salient, yep I said it, fails to understand. To get to where the PDGA is took thirty years, and clearly they are still smoothing out the bumps. The notion that a couple of guys are going to get there in a single year isn't logical.
If that is our definition, it should be written out - it may be.
JC, do you have the language for the notion that once you have a membership you are now in the system, or is that an unwritten rule? I've heard it before, but never seen it written.
It should be noted that the PDGA has grown organically. It shouldn't surprise anyone that this situation might occur, or even that it is bad, simply a growth process. This is what Salient, yep I said it, fails to understand. To get to where the PDGA is took thirty years, and clearly they are still smoothing out the bumps. The notion that a couple of guys are going to get there in a single year isn't logical.
Last edited:
Birds got worse in that respect with the new holes. Outside the couple in the woods, all the new holes are open hyzer shots. They didn't add anything to the course, IMO. If anything, they made it more boring, and offered more opportunities to lose discs.
I posted it...the Competition Manual section 2.1 D regarding players having to identify themselves properly and make no attempt to be anonymous or falsely identify oneself to the PDGA. If one has a PDGA membership number, even if the membership is lapsed, failing to provide it could be construed as trying to be anonymous/hide their identity from the PDGA. Especially if the purpose is to be able to play pro, take cash, but not lose amateur status.
Best examples I can point to are the cases in which players who were suspended by the PDGA that improperly identified themselves in order to play a tournament. One more recent case the player didn't change his name at all (just his address because he really had moved). His membership lapsed before he was suspended (I think it was for unpaid tournament fees as a TD). When he got around to playing a tournament again, not only did he not provide his PDGA number at registration (or mention he was a lapsed member), he signed himself up for a new number. That new number allowed him to not only play multiple events while suspended, but play (and win incidentally) a lower division than his original number and rating would have allowed.
That last part is the biggest reason that giving one's membership number for every tournament even when their membership is lapsed is required. It's not just about being able to account for am/pro status, but also ratings status.
joshmo65
Eagle Member
Eh. I guess this order:
Elver
Heistand
Birds
Cap
Token
I like your description of unspectacularly average course. I felt that way with all of the courses. I was rather disappointed this year as I really thought that we would be able to play a bunch of woods golf, but ended up playing 3 wide open courses. I am spoiled in Pittsburgh, but I didn't feel like any of the courses would crack our top 3 :-/
Elver
Heistand
Birds
Cap
Token
I like your description of unspectacularly average course. I felt that way with all of the courses. I was rather disappointed this year as I really thought that we would be able to play a bunch of woods golf, but ended up playing 3 wide open courses. I am spoiled in Pittsburgh, but I didn't feel like any of the courses would crack our top 3 :-/
teemkey
* Ace Member *
Note that the highlighted paragraph uses the phrase "maintain their amateur status." As pointed out above, until a player joins the PDGA that player has neither Pro or Am status within the PDGA membership; hence until MK became a member he could accept cash under the PDGA rules.
I think this is a flaw, and that the PDGA should require a declaration from a first-time applicant for amateur membership that they have never accepted cash in a sanctioned singles or doubles tournament. If an applicant has previously accepted cash, then the applicant must go through the same procedures as a current member who wants to change from professional to amateur status.
Madison isn't the best spot in WI for disc golf, but it has a decent concentration of tournament usable courses. You could use the Rollin' Ridge area, but you'd inevitably have to use Lower Cato Falls, which is just as meh as Cap Springs, unless you wanted to put some driving time on people.
In summary: tons of great courses in WI, but WI is big, and the great courses are somewhat spread out.
I can't argue that. A new rule or set of guidelines would have to be drafted to set that up. The question then becomes whether or not the powers that be at the PDGA will view this as a priority "problem" that needs to be dealt with swiftly or if it's a fluke occurrence and not one they're concerned will become a larger problem in the future.
To me, it's not unlike a pro member playing an am division for which his rating qualifies him (say a 950 rated pro playing MA1 or a 900 rated 42 year old playing MM1). Some people might find that objectionable, or even "unethical", but by the rules that we have in place, there's nothing illegal about it.
One player "taking advantage" to win one tournament and a few people getting upset about it probably won't move the needle and provoke changes to the pro-playing-am rule. I have a feeling this MK case is going to go the same way.
ScottyLove
Double Eagle Member
I know I'm in the minority, but I LOVED Bird's Ruins. I thought I wouldn't but as the round progressed, I simply cannot find a flaw. (we had two teenage spotters [well paid afterwards], so we never looked long for discs. I personally never threw into the prarie)
So my list is:
Bird's Ruins
Heistand
Token Creek
Capital Springs
Elver
Okay, I played my absolute worst at Elver... so I'm sure that affects my memory of the course.
But my main point in posting was that I think Bird's Ruins is very unique... unlike any other course I've ever played.
So my list is:
Bird's Ruins
Heistand
Token Creek
Capital Springs
Elver
Okay, I played my absolute worst at Elver... so I'm sure that affects my memory of the course.
But my main point in posting was that I think Bird's Ruins is very unique... unlike any other course I've ever played.
teemkey
* Ace Member *
I see your point; however it was Am Worlds, the PDGA's premier tournament for its Amateur members. But, of course, the P in PDGA is for Professional ...
I actually liked birds a lot more then I expected. I didn't care for it during my practice round but the whole course steadily grew on me during the competitive round. I just can't put it above two really solid wooded courses, and I think token and birds are very similar but token is just slightly better.
Similar threads
- Locked
