2016 Vibram Birdie Bash

[Gennataos]

Birdie Bash Home

I'm bummed. I get what these events are, marketing opportunities, but I'm still disappointed. It's $10 more expensive than last year and doesn't offer anything material over what was offered last year. So where's the extra money going? I guess insurance and PDGA sanctioning.

The insurance offer is probably huge for some folks who had to fork over the money for insurance or were simply unable to do so, and thus could not run one. My past two events didn't require it, so it means nothing for me.

PDGA sanctioning? I don't know that many players who've played my past events would care much about this. It certainly wouldn't be much of a selling point. These type of events are perfect for drawing in newer players and the like...players who don't even know there IS a PDGA, much less care about this sort of event being sanctioned. Oh...and the real kicker? The TD must be a PDGA member. I've never been a PDGA member and I don't envision myself becoming one. Maybe I'm an outlier...maybe most people who run events like this are already PDGA members? Now...there is a caveat that not ALL VBBs must be PDGA sanctioned, but it's on a case by case basis. I don't know that me not being a PDGA member would be enough.

I think it's fine that we're limited to the new fairway lineup and putters. I know some folks would probably prefer the mids were available, but I get the marketing drive with the fairways.

If you get 30+ players, you get "extra" prizes. Maybe they'll tell us what those are later, maybe they won't. Historically, they've updated the VBB site as time goes on with pics of prizes and whatnot. Does that mean I get the same number of extra prizes if I get 80 players as I would if I got 30? /shrug

"The player pack shirt is the best shirt ever produced for disc golf." No pic of the shirt. I guess we'll take their word for it.

I really, really dug this event in 2014, which is why I ran one. I felt it was a great value proposition for players and offered a fun, alternative scoring format. I thought they improved some stuff for 2015, so I ran another one, but the lack of fairway availability did bum me out. This year, from what information they've made available thus far, they're charging players more and offering them less. It also appears they'd require me join the PDGA to even run one. I'm not going to do that.

Anyone else have opinions on the changes? Maybe have more insight it why the changes happened?

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

The reason it's $40 is because they are covering the PDGA fees. Which probably in a roundabout way is to get more people to join the pdga. They also said extra swag in the players pack.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

The reason it's $40 is because they are covering the PDGA fees. Which probably in a roundabout way is to get more people to join the pdga. They also said extra swag in the players pack.

Also over 10% of proceeds will be donated to st judes

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

Just was looking at last year's Info
2015 cost $30 $60 value
2016 cost $40 $100 value.

 

[uncle pennybags]

So what happens to the $10 of the player registering when they are a PDGA member? Does that become a bonus for the TD, or does Vibram pocket it to cover other costs associated with this years event?

On a side note I've thought of running this as a XC just for the insurance, so making it a requirement isn't such a bad thing.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

So what happens to the $10 of the player registering when they are a PDGA member? Does that become a bonus for the TD, or does Vibram pocket it to cover other costs associated with this years event?

On a side note I've thought of running this as a XC just for the insurance, so making it a requirement isn't such a bad thing.

Read posts above

 

[Gennataos]

I'd be surprised if even a quarter of people who play in these sort of events care at all about the PDGA. Including that as a value add won't resonate much with participants.

Where are you coming up with it being a $100 value? Do you know what the "extra swag" is? It's certainly not detailed on the site. What's detailed is two discs, a mini, a (not shown) shirt and the chance to win a pair of socks, a bottle opener or a trophy disc. That's it. That's what the player gets for $40, which is exactly what they got last year for $30.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Read posts above

I think maybe I said that wrong.

What I was referring to was the $10 non-pdga member fee and where that now extra $10 would go if a player happens to be a current member. Traditionally pdga sanctioned events have a discount for current members, thus adding to the value of a membership.

I understand Vibram is covering all fees, but it seems like what's really happening is that they assume that no one will have a current membership and are adding $10 to the cost of this years player pack. So if I had 20 current members does that mean I'll get an extra $200 back to use for prizes & such, or does Vibram use that to cover their costs with sanctioning?

ON a different note, I really dislike that the don't want us to give a point for CTP when no one gets points other wise. That went over really well at my event last year.

 

[kenjiac]

Are these gonna be rated? I actually think that may hurt not help. I myself am not overly concerned with my rating but some player may not want to play a rated round with unfamiliar discs. Ok more i think about it the points scoring system can't be rated...Can It? I hope not. Beside insurance what is the benefit of pdga sanctioning? Are current pdga members gonna get the $10 off?

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

I think maybe I said that wrong.

What I was referring to was the $10 non-pdga member fee and where that now extra $10 would go if a player happens to be a current member. Traditionally pdga sanctioned events have a discount for current members, thus adding to the value of a membership.

I understand Vibram is covering all fees, but it seems like what's really happening is that they assume that no one will have a current membership and are adding $10 to the cost of this years player pack. So if I had 20 current members does that mean I'll get an extra $200 back to use for prizes & such, or does Vibram use that to cover their costs with sanctioning?

ON a different note, I really dislike that the don't want us to give a point for CTP when no one gets points other wise. That went over really well at my event last year.

Posts above not post above
they are donating over 10% of proceeds to st. Judes
also the players pack is a $100 value this year compared to last year's $60 value and they cover the pdga sanctioning fees

your ctp question answered from their website
We have removed the extra point for CTP on holes where no points were earned. This was consistently unfair as some players never had an opportunity to get it and others were able to always have an opportunity to get it. Simple is better.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

I'd be surprised if even a quarter of people who play in these sort of events care at all about the PDGA. Including that as a value add won't resonate much with participants.

Where are you coming up with it being a $100 value? Do you know what the "extra swag" is? It's certainly not detailed on the site. What's detailed is two discs, a mini, a (not shown) shirt and the chance to win a pair of socks, a bottle opener or a trophy disc. That's it. That's what the player gets for $40, which is exactly what they got last year for $30.

If you actually read the information on the website you will see that they quote it at a $100 value.


1 fairway driver $18
1 putter $18
1 mini $4
1 if their shirt is a truly quality item with custom logos etc then it's value could well be in the $60 range
For example a Nike dri fit polo with 2 small DD logos is $50

 

[uncle pennybags]

Posts above not post above
they are donating over 10% of proceeds to st. Judes
also the players pack is a $100 value this year compared to last year's $60 value and they cover the pdga sanctioning fees

your ctp question answered from their website
We have removed the extra point for CTP on holes where no points were earned. This was consistently unfair as some players never had an opportunity to get it and others were able to always have an opportunity to get it. Simple is better.

Fair enough about donations, I forgot about that.

I don't share the opinion that the point for CTP was unfair in any way. We were all trying to get it in the basket, and if nobody managed to awarding a point to the person with the best effort seems fair. It's not really any more unfair than one person scoring and another one not getting any points due to less good throwing.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Also I see no mention of the championship. That was a big part of the marketing last year, and quite fun too! Hopefully they aren't dropping it.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

Fair enough about donations, I forgot about that.

I don't share the opinion that the point for CTP was unfair in any way. We were all trying to get it in the basket, and if nobody managed to awarding a point to the person with the best effort seems fair. It's not really any more unfair than one person scoring and another one not getting any points due to less good throwing.

I'll have to say that I agree with vibram's decision if just for the sake of it being simpler.
But I could see how a beginner who gets grouped with slightly more consistent throwers could never win a ctp point and would come away feeling a little down.

 

[ru4por]

I think it is kind of funny that in the, everything should be free, world of disc golf, some are aghast that Vibram could be in business to make a profit. I don't see that they are here, but they are a business. The ultimate goal should always be to make money.

 

[AndyJB]

I like the XC idea. Our event last year did require insurance and it was a total mess. I didnt get my permit until the 11th hour. So the sanctioning will really help if our club decides to run one this year (the last two Ive run were great club and course fundraisers but I lost a lot of money and time). But for those who dont need insurance for their events I can see being a little disgruntled.

And for those wondering, X-Tier events like this are unrated, but you do earn points towards Worlds. Hopefully Vibram is planning a pro and am division, because I certainly dont need any points towards pro worlds.

 

[Gennataos]

If you actually read the information on the website you will see that they quote it at a $100 value.

1 fairway driver $18
1 putter $18
1 mini $4
1 if their shirt is a truly quality item with custom logos etc then it's value could well be in the $60 range
For example a Nike dri fit polo with 2 small DD logos is $50

Found the $100 value quote. I guess we'll have to see this shirt to see how accurate that turns out to be. I'd be down for an awesome Vibram polo. I have the TD shirts from the last two years...2014, in particular, is pretty nice. Along those lines, I've seen some awesome Vibram apparel worn by Team members...wish some of that would be available for sale.

I think it is kind of funny that in the, everything should be free, world of disc golf, some are aghast that Vibram could be in business to make a profit. I don't see that they are here, but they are a business. The ultimate goal should always be to make money.

You can choose to infer that from my post. I never suggested they shouldn't make a profit, though. I ran the event the last two years. This year, from what I can see thus far, they're charging more for the same thing as last year. I don't see what's wrong with me not liking that and posting about my disappointment.

Ultimately my choice is to run the event again or not. Notwithstanding that I don't like the price point, I'm not a PDGA member and I'm not interested in becoming one, which means I can't even run one.

I've loved Vibram for a long time, it's not like this changes my opinion of the company. I just don't like how the VBB is presented this year. I'll probably still look for one nearby to play in, but I don't see myself running one.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

Found the $100 value quote. I guess we'll have to see this shirt to see how accurate that turns out to be. I'd be down for an awesome Vibram polo. I have the TD shirts from the last two years...2014, in particular, is pretty nice. Along those lines, I've seen some awesome Vibram apparel worn by Team members...wish some of that would be available for sale.


You can choose to infer that from my post. I never suggested they shouldn't make a profit, though. I ran the event the last two years. This year, from what I can see thus far, they're charging more for the same thing as last year. I don't see what's wrong with me not liking that and posting about my disappointment.

Ultimately my choice is to run the event again or not. Notwithstanding that I don't like the price point, I'm not a PDGA member and I'm not interested in becoming one, which means I can't even run one.

I've loved Vibram for a long time, it's not like this changes my opinion of the company. I just don't like how the VBB is presented this year. I'll probably still look for one nearby to play in, but I don't see myself running one.

Makes a lot of sense you pay $40 to play in a vibram event but won't pay $40 for a pdga membership.

 

[Gennataos]

Makes a lot of sense you pay $40 to play in a vibram event but won't pay $40 for a pdga membership.

For $40 at the VBB I get a $100 value! You said it, yourself! Two discs, a mini and what will surely be the sweetest DG shirt EVAR. For $50 (not $40) for a PDGA membership, I get only ONE disc and NO super sweet DG shirt. That's a clear net win for the VBB.

There are few things I care less about than the PDGA.

 

[BrotherDave]

I might not run one this year. I feel like the demand for rubber in my area is on a downswing and the extra cost for another limited selection of discs could hurt.