2019 Ledgestone

[_MTL_]

I got a better idea for payouts. Let the TD decide how to do it. The PDGA should step aside when it comes to payouts, player packs and so on.

Disagree 100%. 100%.

I as a PDGA member shouldn't randomly travel across the country and play a local C tier and not understand before I get there basics of the event. The PDGA standards help control that and provide consistency to each of their events.

The PDGA's role in payouts is perfect - they say what you must do in minimum and allow you to do as little or as much past that minimum as you want. This is the perfect balance.

 

[Discette]

I got a better idea for payouts. Let the TD decide how to do it. The PDGA should step aside when it comes to payouts, player packs and so on. The only thing the PDGA should do IMHO is make the TD deliver whatever is promised. So for example, the TD publishes a payout table based on added cash, what prizes are going to be dolled out, player packs, etc. The TD is held to whatever standard they themselves apply and the only thing the PDGA does is make suggestions. In other words, the market dictates how the TD runs their event. They can cater it to whatever the locals want. Locals want a tourney where only the top 3 get payouts out of a field of 20? You got it.

Now I can see the PDGA having a bit more control over NT events and I am okay with that but for your average run of the mill C Tier? C'om this player pack and payout schedule requirement is just silly.

-Dave

Turns out, the PDGA is already working just as you suggest it should!

There is already a LOT of flexibility in the C-Tier format that is PERFECT for local events. The PDGA gives guidelines and TD's have choices within those guidelines. FYI - there is ZERO player pack required for a C-Tier event. C-Tier events do not have to add any cash (or value) and can actually pay out as little as 85% of the entry fees. C-Tiers do agree to follow PDGA payout tables. However, the payout tables are also flexible allowing TD to adjust payout percentages. Of course any sanctioned events that want to deviate from the tour standards and payout schedules can get permission to sanction as an X-Tier status and change things up even more! With XC-Tier status, almost anything goes! Dream Big!

Again, there is built-in flexibility for C-Tier events, while NT and A-Tier events have more rigid standards and increased PDGA oversight. The current PDGA tier system is working and it will continue to change as the sport continues to evolve.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Well alrighty then. I see a few are dead set against my opinion so I don't really feel like expanding on that thought...so...whatever.

Still doesn't change the fact that payouts both pro and am are a royal PITA and I hate them with a passion. As a newbie TD they are far and away my least favorite part of running an event. If I thought I could get the same attendance for my events I would run true armature events only and I would never do another payout ever. Just spend the money on CTPs, raffles, etc - or heck, lower the reg fee significantly all while feeding everyone a really nice lunch.

 

[JC17393]

Well alrighty then. I see a few are dead set against my opinion so I don't really feel like expanding on that thought...so...whatever.

Still doesn't change the fact that payouts both pro and am are a royal PITA and I hate them with a passion. As a newbie TD they are far and away my least favorite part of running an event. If I thought I could get the same attendance for my events I would run true armature events only and I would never do another payout ever. Just spend the money on CTPs, raffles, etc - or heck, lower the reg fee significantly all while feeding everyone a really nice lunch.

The bolded suggests that it isn't PDGA standards and requirements that are the issue, it's player expectation in your area.

I'll never understand why TDs run events that they don't enjoy running. Run the tournaments you want to run, do it however you think is best. If you're correct and your methods make for a good tournament experience, people will come. If not, you'll be a lot happier not running a tournament at all as opposed to doing it in a way you view as a PITA.

 

[ru4por]

Well alrighty then. I see a few are dead set against my opinion so I don't really feel like expanding on that thought...so...whatever.

Still doesn't change the fact that payouts both pro and am are a royal PITA and I hate them with a passion. As a newbie TD they are far and away my least favorite part of running an event. If I thought I could get the same attendance for my events I would run true armature events only and I would never do another payout ever. Just spend the money on CTPs, raffles, etc - or heck, lower the reg fee significantly all while feeding everyone a really nice lunch.

I am not sure that anyone is against your idea. I love the thought of AM only, trophy only events with nice amenities. Just against sanctioning them.

 

[_MTL_]

If I thought I could get the same attendance for my events I would run true armature events only and I would never do another payout ever. Just spend the money on CTPs, raffles, etc - or heck, lower the reg fee significantly all while feeding everyone a really nice lunch.

If you can't, the issue isn't those things.

 

[biscoe]

Well alrighty then. I see a few are dead set against my opinion so I don't really feel like expanding on that thought...so...whatever.

Still doesn't change the fact that payouts both pro and am are a royal PITA and I hate them with a passion. As a newbie TD they are far and away my least favorite part of running an event. If I thought I could get the same attendance for my events I would run true armature events only and I would never do another payout ever. Just spend the money on CTPs, raffles, etc - or heck, lower the reg fee significantly all while feeding everyone a really nice lunch.

If no one in your area has tried running actual amateur events how do you know they will be poorly received? What is the worst thing that can happen if you run one? IMO in areas with reasonably active scenes there are plenty of players who play for a multitude of different reasons, some of them will likely support the idea.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I've played in several events where on the first hole(shotgun start) every group had its own CTP. Is that considered part of the overall payout? If so, it seems to me like you could load your event with these types of prizes and run a true AM style event with trophies and no pack or payouts...

 

[JC17393]

I've played in several events where on the first hole(shotgun start) every group had its own CTP. Is that considered part of the overall payout? If so, it seems to me like you could load your event with these types of prizes and run a true AM style event with trophies and no pack or payouts...

When entering the financials of a PDGA event, CTPs are placed in a separate category from player pack values and payouts. However, they are still included in the value as a percentage of entry fee calculation. So I'd say yes, you can load your event with prizes of that type in a true amateur style event.

Probably something that should be advertised well in advance so it's clear to those signing up, but I think it's something that can be PDGA sanctioned.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Kinda feel like this ought to be its own thread or spliced into a fitting pre-existing one....

 

[brutalbrutus]

Kinda feel like this ought to be its own thread or spliced into a fitting pre-existing one....

Ehh, maybe but its not like there is much to talk about regarding the event until Friday.

 

[LateWesternSky]

The weather for Friday is looking better. It went from 50% to 20% chance of rain.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Sunday not looking so good though...

 

[ru4por]

If no one in your area has tried running actual amateur events how do you know they will be poorly received? What is the worst thing that can happen if you run one? IMO in areas with reasonably active scenes there are plenty of players who play for a multitude of different reasons, some of them will likely support the idea.

I am across the state from Dave, but AM only events are pretty popular here in the Southeast corner. I think I had recently counted up 8 AM only sanctioned events this season. A couple A and B tiers.

 

[JC17393]

I am across the state from Dave, but AM only events are pretty popular here in the Southeast corner. I think I had recently counted up 8 AM only sanctioned events this season. A couple A and B tiers.

Am only with a True Amateur model or Am only with the "traditional" player pack and stacks of plastic to the winner model? The way I take Dave's posts, he's not a fan of dealing with paying anyone out, whether it's cash or merch.

 

[ru4por]

Am only with a True Amateur model or Am only with the "traditional" player pack and stacks of plastic to the winner model? The way I take Dave's posts, he's not a fan of dealing with paying anyone out, whether it's cash or merch.

All have been player pack and payout models. I love to play and enjoy the competition, but no player pack, no payout would likely be a pretty difficult sell. I would play it if the field was decent, the course was nice and Dave fed my lunch and few post round beercicles.

 

[Jolt]

Fun card for Dana Vicich, the bombers Simon, GG and McBeth on his card...this card I would like to watch

 

[JC17393]

Fun card for Dana Vicich, the bombers Simon, GG and McBeth on his card...this card I would like to watch

Would be strange if that isn't one of the featured cards for post-produced even if it isn't the live featured card.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Would be strange if that isn't one of the featured cards for post-produced even if it isn't the live featured card.

The JomezPro feature card will include event choice Simon Lizotte, Discraft Disc Golf player Paul McBeth and the fourth and fifth place in the fan vote.

:thmbup:

 

[brutalbrutus]

The Live feature card will include last year's runner-up Chris Dickerson, Tour Points Leader Eagle McMahon, Discraft Disc Golf player Brian Earhart and the winner of the fan vote.

The CentralCoastDiscGolf feature card will include event choice Michael Johansen MJ, Discraft Disc Golf player Benjamin S Callaway and the second and third place in the fan vote.

Apparently the winner of the fan vote for the live card is a 980 something rated local. Garry Patton.

Matt Orum and Calvin are on the CCDG card.

The live feature card will include last year's champion Jessica weese, event runner up Sarah Hokom, Discraft Disc Golf player Vanessa Van Dyken, and Fan Vote Winner #1.

The second feature card will be filmed by GK Productions and include event choice Catrina Allen, GK choice Paige Pierce, and Fan Vote Winners 2 & 3.

Kacie Glade and Van Dyken on the live card.

Sara Gilpin and Halley King on the GK card.