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ET Swedish Open & EPT Tyyni Open

EllEstar

Eagle Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
543
It was pretty crazy watching Silva shred the course today, if shee keeps up her current form she's gonna be a top contender globally.

The course is very scorable and I think a -10 is possible if someone gets really hot, conditions today were kinda meh. It rained on the first few holes and the course was super wet, also colder and breezier than it's been.
 
Hole 18 looks like a beast in the Swedish Open. From what I saw that is about as frustrated as I have seen McBeth.

Looking forward to the coverage. Course looks awesome, announcers they have do a great job IMO and pretty cool seeing 7 different countries represented in the top 10.

Bradley has some work to do to stay undefeated in Europe!
 
The weather here in the south of Sweden isn´t great today. .it will start to rain soon. .and the wind is up
 
Solid drama. Courses were not what they have been the past few weeks but they were fine and few in the world are as scenic as Konopiste or Krokhol.
 
Solid drama. Courses were not what they have been the past few weeks but they were fine and few in the world are as scenic as Konopiste or Krokhol.

Ymergården is nowhere near as beautiful, there aren't very many par 4s (and no 5s), the finishing stretch of holes is not as exciting as in Krokhol and the MPO layout may be a bit on the softer side.

But playing it was miles more interesting than Krokhol and I think the FPO layout was way better.
 
Strange not to see Eveliina or Henna at the Swedish open..1st place was $2913 in FPO and its not that long of a journey for them.
 
lots of talk that the Swedish open course was easy and short. . BUT Paul shot the course record at -11

Preserve best round -15
DDO -12

I dont think -11 as the course record sounds "soft" , only two double digit scores all weekend. .if you did 3x -7 rounds you would be in the top 3
 
If shooting a "birdie" or better is considered "scoring" in golf, then every hole should be birdieable at a reasonable percentage by the majority of players who are legitimate contenders within any division (within 30-40 rating points of the top-rated player competing). "Reasonable" design should produce birdies in the 10%-50% range. Less than 10% likely only favors the longest arms and will also mean there may be no birdies when the wind/weather is tougher. Greater than 50% birdies on average and the hole is perhaps too easy for that player skill level.

If the hole designer specifically designs or sets par so birdies are not possible on a hole, they are basically saying, "Sorry, you cannot score on this hole." That's as bad as a bowling alley having little bumps they can remotely pop-up on each alley to slightly reroute the ball when it appears a bowler is approaching a 300 game. Note that players with ratings over 1030 have to average 4 under SSA par just to maintain their rating meaning they need the potential to shoot at least some rounds 8-10 under par to offset the rounds in the other direction.

Point being, designers need to provide the potential for 18 birdies but still make it rare to actually throw 18 birdies. If a course is designed well for a skill level, players and spectators should not be surprised with rounds more than 10 under when the par is set properly. Based on tour stats, it also means the courses for FPO need to be set about 70% of the MPO length so their birdie percentage is as high as MPO. FPO playing the same layout as MPO and just adjusting pars higher does not provide the same playing experience, i.e., fewer ace chances, fewer par 3s and more par 5s. Currently, the FPO courses on tour are still set too long with birdie averages about 10-15 percentage points lower than MPO in the same event.
 
If shooting a "birdie" or better is considered "scoring" in golf, then every hole should be birdieable at a reasonable percentage by the majority of players who are legitimate contenders within any division (within 30-40 rating points of the top-rated player competing). "Reasonable" design should produce birdies in the 10%-50% range. Less than 10% likely only favors the longest arms and will also mean there may be no birdies when the wind/weather is tougher. Greater than 50% birdies on average and the hole is perhaps too easy for that player skill level.

If the hole designer specifically designs or sets par so birdies are not possible on a hole, they are basically saying, "Sorry, you cannot score on this hole." That's as bad as a bowling alley having little bumps they can remotely pop-up on each alley to slightly reroute the ball when it appears a bowler is approaching a 300 game. Note that players with ratings over 1030 have to average 4 under SSA par just to maintain their rating meaning they need the potential to shoot at least some rounds 8-10 under par to offset the rounds in the other direction.

Point being, designers need to provide the potential for 18 birdies but still make it rare to actually throw 18 birdies. If a course is designed well for a skill level, players and spectators should not be surprised with rounds more than 10 under when the par is set properly. Based on tour stats, it also means the courses for FPO need to be set about 70% of the MPO length so their birdie percentage is as high as MPO. FPO playing the same layout as MPO and just adjusting pars higher does not provide the same playing experience, i.e., fewer ace chances, fewer par 3s and more par 5s. Currently, the FPO courses on tour are still set too long with birdie averages about 10-15 percentage points lower than MPO in the same event.

Scoring lower than the other guy is "scoring". Ricky didn't lift the bear because he hit a target score for that course. He lifted it because he got the lowest score compared to all the other players.

A player can score by avoiding the bogey the other guy got just as effectively as getting the birdie the other guy didn't. A player can't score by getting a birdie if everyone else also got a birdie.

Besides, it would be more exciting if the scores relative to par were not just always just ratcheting downward.

The bowling alley bumps analogy is invalid. Nothing about making a hole easier or harder is random like that. A better analogy would be making the lane twice as long - for everybody.

As for FPO vs. MPO, the 70% is correct, but you are assuming MPO holes are at the correct level of difficulty. MPO holes are actually a little too easy. Ideal for FPO would be about 77% as long as the current MPO holes, and the MPO holes should be about 10% longer than they are now.

I agree that merely setting pars correctly for FPO is not good enough.

I think it would be within the realm of designer's choice to design a hole that does not offer much chance of a birdie. As Houck says, sometimes you gotta break the "rules" of good design.

However, par on that hole should still follow the guidelines. It would NOT be OK to reduce par below the guidelines to eliminate birdies. Just as it would NOT be OK to raise par above the guidelines to create birdies. Fiddling with the par on one hole negatively affects the credibility and usefulness of par on all holes.

In theory, a course could have all the pars set at guidelines and still offer scores of 10 under. However, to date, almost all of those have been achieved by having two or three holes with pars that are too high. We shouldn't be real comfortable with many scores of 10 under.

There is no such thing as "SSA Par". You conflated the two different terms to try to make a point.

Even par can be rated anywhere from 990 to 1030, depending on the amount of punishment the course dishes out. So, on a course with a lot of punishment, a 1030-rated player could maintain their rating by shooting even par. And on a course with little or no punishment, they would need to get 6 under to maintain their rating. In other words, to maintain their rating they need to shoot their rating, no matter the par. Duh! Whether the course offers no birdies or many.
 
Pretty cool for McBeth to go and win in a DG hotbed. The legend lives on.
 
A specific shot to make you say that? I only watched 16,17,18 and he was sinking long putts to stay even with Paul. Drive on 18 was very close to perfection, the last tree just kicked it OB

I think it really came down to starting out even par through the first 6 holes, where Paul went 5 under. The first 6 is a very easy stretch, especially 2-5, and you'd like to be 3-5 under through it.
 
lots of talk that the Swedish open course was easy and short. . BUT Paul shot the course record at -11

Preserve best round -15
DDO -12

I dont think -11 as the course record sounds "soft" , only two double digit scores all weekend. .if you did 3x -7 rounds you would be in the top 3

You also only had 3 1030+ rated players in the field, vs 22 and 18 at Preserve and DDO. Worth noting that those are also two very scorable courses in good conditions, which they got, and the weather in Borås was much worse (albeit not terrible).

The course is definitely short, but it is worth noting that many of the shortest holes are tricky, uphill shots with a low ceiling.
 
Ymergården is nowhere near as beautiful, there aren't very many par 4s (and no 5s), the finishing stretch of holes is not as exciting as in Krokhol and the MPO layout may be a bit on the softer side.

But playing it was miles more interesting than Krokhol and I think the FPO layout was way better.

I think if all 3 were in my neighborhood I would likely play Ymergården the most- it checks off most of the boxes I am looking for in a course. Konopiste is more open than I prefer for my play and Krokhol is too much work.
 
Silva Saarinen is stacking some nice results this year. Her game visibly looks much more solid compared to last year. Rachel Turton looks to be throwing the disc really well too.

These two courses were so nice I barely looked at The Preserve :)
 
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