Exactly... they'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul. See what I did there?
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2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread
- Thread starter Buchajs1
- Start date
Exactly... they'd be robbing Peter to pay Paul. See what I did there?
No way is ultimate a larger overall $ source than disc golf as far as moving plastic. (I will agree it's a bigger metric for spectator sales, etc.) Think of the metrics....more people play the sport, but how many discs per person is there? Disc golf moves a ton of plastic. I'm guessing the avg casual player has at least 5 discs, weekend warriors 10+, adv to pro 15-20 discs. So I don't believe Discraft's Ultimate sales are larger than their disc golf sales. Now...return on investment, I will agree it's a bigger percentage, but not in total profits taken in.
Finny
Birdie Member
What if there are 100x more ultimate players than disc golfers?
broomerang
Double Eagle Member
I consider myself a weekend warrior and I currently have 100+ discs in the house.
A very conservative estimate would be that I've probably purchased and sold another 200 in the last 15 years.
And probably lost 20 in the same amount of time.
I feel comfortable with an estimate of 300 discs purchased new from a retailer.
I'm probably not the average disc buyer but I'm not alone. Meanwhile I still own the same ultimate disc I have since it was passed down from my sister's college days.
If more 10x more people pick up playing disc golf we're going to need more recycling efforts.
Finny
Birdie Member
Ultiworld reported that there were 5 million people who played ultimate in 2011. https://ultiworld.com/2016/12/20/ne...rticipation-shrinking-especially-among-males/
Also from what I have been told by a long time Discraft sponsored player/rep, sanctioned Ultimate games require a new disc each game.
Teams have lots of discs for practice, and all the players own at least one. All the tournaments usually get special stamped discs for the tourneys. But the biggest difference I think it just how easily ultimate discs get warped. I know disc golf discs can crack and break sometimes, but in a comparative amount of time I've seen a lot more broken Ultimate discs. Discs used for real games were always pretty fresh and most of our practice discs weren't more than a season or two old.
Also you might throw the same disc 18 times in a round, but a lot of discs are sharing the load. That one disc in a ultimate game is getting a lot of abuse.
Even Collegiate, Weekly Leagues or just Casual dudes like to play with a new disc every game.
Those things can fly differently after one decent spike.
This thread has had my attention a lot today because I just want it to be true. Discraft is my favorite brand but it's got two big flaws.
1. No firm putting plastic option. Like McPro.
2. No OS fairway (speed 6/7). Like a Teebird.
If they managed to get Paul, he would force them to make both of those things happen.
Actually, in chatting with some people on the Fulcrum crew, Disc Golf might be the bigger/more attractive market...and remember that's coming from the company that has a contract with the AUDL.
I think soon it'll be time to challenge the commonly held belief of disc golf as the smaller of the frisbee sports, depending on the metric used. I've heard a few times this year actually forecasts of plateau'ing for Ultimate. I don't know how much stock to put into it realistically, but anecdotally you have multiple groups (Discraft, Fulcrum, Ultiworld) focusing a good deal of attention on us lately.
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As far as rumors on free agency? This offseason is not going to be boring, let's put it that way...I predict two things:
1) A big name will make a move, everything is a jigsaw puzzle right now. The companies that are looking to sign big names can't sign ALL of their targets...so the dominoes have to fall in somewhat of an order.
2) A name that you didn't expect to move, will move.
Bonus: anyone try to go to the Prodiscus USA site today? I have no info here, could be nothing, but the timing makes for good forum talk.
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OK that's all the speculating I'm doing, no more fire stoking.
McBeth is totally moving to Discraft. It's fantastic news for me personally because Discraft has been keeping the Nebula out of production to wait on McBeth's debut. Not many people know this but McBeast is a closet hoarder of 2008 Ace Race discs.
The real big surprise is LeBron to Legacy though.
The real big surprise is LeBron to Legacy though.
discgolfer25
Birdie Member
You're late. I was Prodiscus USA. I already talked to your podcast co-host about this last week. To fill you in: things didn't work out with Prodiscus and my partner and myself. The assets were acquired by Prodiscus and I would excpect it to launch again at some point
All that equals a lot of disc sales, a lot easier to make money off of and contend with than the "is this a flat, overstable, glidey, grippy run but tacky enough for winter play"
Jabumbo
Par Member
Man, I don't really care about all this sponsor stuff, but all this talk of numbers and ultimate has me reading through this thread for some reason. I would love to see a breakdown of things like market share on disc sales.
For ultimate discs, I would venture to say that Discraft has to control some monster number like 80-90% because the Ultrastar is the only disc worth its weight. I would personally put the Wham-O second and I can't even tell you the name of the Innova model because it's just that bad.
As a guy who has been a recreational player in both ultimate and disc golf for the last 20 years, I can safely say that I have more Ultrastar discs in my basement right now than any other brand of golf discs.
Stats are fun!
For ultimate discs, I would venture to say that Discraft has to control some monster number like 80-90% because the Ultrastar is the only disc worth its weight. I would personally put the Wham-O second and I can't even tell you the name of the Innova model because it's just that bad.
As a guy who has been a recreational player in both ultimate and disc golf for the last 20 years, I can safely say that I have more Ultrastar discs in my basement right now than any other brand of golf discs.
Stats are fun!
Whoa. Charlie holding out on me eh?:gross:
Sorry to hear that things didn't work out. If you're game, come on the podcast and share your experience working in the industry!
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Wouldn't it be Mcnoying?
CreemCheese
Double Eagle Member
McBeth can't go to Discraft, his Innova ad says something to the effect of only playing for Innova.
ProdiscusUSA site will be re-opened for next season. That will include online orders with stock discs, players touring discs, etc. So stay tuned.
dehaas
* Ace Member *
I wouldn't have any doubt if Discraft approached McBeth with an offer, but Innova has the upper hand here. Suppose the Discraft offer was better, it would only make sense to bring that back for a last shot at matching or beating it. If it were you would you follow the money to an unknown landing spot or try to get the money in a familiar space? Only way he moves is if there's a significant difference in offers that won't be matched, or the current relationship is broken and just time for a fresh start. I can't see either of those happening.
For the others: K Jo would fit well with Simon and Eagle at DM. I think a lot of that is going to depend on how rich the offers are from the other companies. I wouldn't imagine them going crazy with money to outbid another company when they already 2 big pros they're backing pretty strong.
I think Uli is another one to watch. He had a strong year and seems to be a guy that is well liked by all of the other pros. There's talk about prodigy and how well they're doing or not doing. One of these seasons you're going to see somebody pick him up. My guess is he'd go back to Innova.
I think the more interesting McBeth story for me is if he can land a cash deal with somebody for shoes and apparel. The cash deal with adidas was only a year and this year he wore a little bit of everything. I personally don't care what the dude wears, but am more interested in somebody getting their foot in the door with a company other than a disc manufacturer.
For the others: K Jo would fit well with Simon and Eagle at DM. I think a lot of that is going to depend on how rich the offers are from the other companies. I wouldn't imagine them going crazy with money to outbid another company when they already 2 big pros they're backing pretty strong.
I think Uli is another one to watch. He had a strong year and seems to be a guy that is well liked by all of the other pros. There's talk about prodigy and how well they're doing or not doing. One of these seasons you're going to see somebody pick him up. My guess is he'd go back to Innova.
I think the more interesting McBeth story for me is if he can land a cash deal with somebody for shoes and apparel. The cash deal with adidas was only a year and this year he wore a little bit of everything. I personally don't care what the dude wears, but am more interested in somebody getting their foot in the door with a company other than a disc manufacturer.
