2022 PDGA Rules

[thecandydan]

I don't mind a couple of cards with five players and generally don't feel five people play much slower than four. A tournament where every card had five would definitely drag. I actually played on a card of five a couple of weeks ago and our group didn't hold anyone up. In fact, we were waiting on the group of four in front of us more often than not.

Yes, with a card or two of five players it's more about who is slow and fast.

But around here it's not just a couple cards it's TDs who fill tourneys with 5/hole instead of 4/hole. So on a 24 hole course it amounts to 120 players (often plus ghost groups) versus 96. Or 72 versus 90 (plus the ghost groups). So 25% more players per card -- I wouldn't say it takes 25% longer to play but probably 15% longer? In which case those 3 hour tourney rounds take 3hr27min instead. Over two rounds that amounts to an extra hour . . . and it's all standing around waiting time, no extra action. (Kinda like baseball games that used to take 2 hours are now 3 hours but have the exact same amount of actual game action.)

No complaints from me mind you, around here we have a great independent TD who runs tons of events in different formats including many one rounders which are what I usually choose to do. Thankfully I have plenty of choices in my area. I'll occasionally choose to do one of the crowded slow two round tournaments but they are less fun imo.

I also think that stepping back . . . as the average course gets longer and harder the traditional model of two round tournaments will make less sense. Clearly the DGPT has reached that conclusion on behalf of touring pros. And of course the DGPT also always just has foursomes even though they (often) could clearly sell more spaces and garner additional entry fees for the payouts by having fivesomes.

Sorry to stray from the rules discussion.

 

[Steve West]

Incidentally, this sort of scenario (disc passes on the correct side of the mando but still ending up in a restricted area) demonstrates that the updated mandatory rule does NOT eliminate the concern for where a disc comes to rest.

That's the reason the mando rule is not in the Regulated Areas section. If the place the disc lands is the concern, use OB or some other Regulated Area rule.

Also, note that it is not possible for any kind of rule to physically stop a bad throw from going where it shouldn't. If you are thinking there needs to be a rule on any hole "for safety", don't use that hole.

 

[roblee]

If the disc travels any direction across the restricted space, the mandatory has been missed. The goal here was to make it simple and remove the need for a dozen different pictures to try to explain what is / isn't allowed.

Thinking you may need a few pictures anyway. I'm puzzled when you add that the restricted "space" is bi-directional. I don't get that from reading the new rule. First, I think we are talking about a "plane" rather than a space.

To be clear, you say if the throw passes the Mando on the correct side then travels (somehow) backward toward the previous lie across the restricted plane it is now a penalty? Now, once you cross the "bad" side the status of the throw can't change but if you pass the "good" side first you may still be penalized. If so, I think some more clarification would be helpful.

 

[krupicka]

Thinking you may need a few pictures anyway. I'm puzzled when you add that the restricted "space" is bi-directional. I don't get that from reading the new rule. First, I think we are talking about a "plane" rather than a space.

To be clear, you say if the throw passes the Mando on the correct side then travels (somehow) backward toward the previous lie across the restricted plane it is now a penalty? Now, once you cross the "bad" side the status of the throw can't change but if you pass the "good" side first you may still be penalized. If so, I think some more clarification would be helpful.

Restricted space = plane, yes. I do not recall why we did not just call it a restricted plane.

Two reasons for the restricted space being omni-directional.

1. Is it simplifies the rule and determination if the mandatory has been missed. "Did it cross? (Y/N)".
2. There is no such thing as "making" a mandatory (you won't find it in the rules). Only missing it. Way back in the history of the rules, there was only making a mandatory. If a player threw on the wrong side, they had to unwind (i.e. throw backwards), and cross the mando on the correct side. When we transitioned from unwinding to a penalty years ago, we switched conceptually from making a mando to missing it. This is why so many course rules are written as making a mando. They are somewhat based on how the rules were 20 years ago.

A note to TDs and Course Designers. Please consider updating/writing your course rules to talk about what misses a mando. So rather than

The disc must pass right of the flag pole. If you miss, go to the drop zone with a one-throw penalty.

or the worse, but common

Mando right of the flag pole

Please write it as

Throws that pass left of the flag pole have missed the mandatory. If a throw misses the mandatory, the player's next lie is the drop zone and they receive one penalty throw.

or say it both ways to make sure a player is not confused:

The disc must pass right of the flag pole. Throws that pass left of the flag pole have missed the mandatory. If a throw misses the mandatory, the player's next lie is the drop zone and they receive one penalty throw.

PS: TDs should mark the missed mandatory line with paint or something else to make it clear at what point the disc has missed the mandatory.

 

[Smigles]

ith their own throw."

If you ask a player in your group who's spotting to stop your disc from going into a pond, and they do it, you'll have to re-throw from your original lie with penalty (stroke and distance) whereas if the spotter lets your disc go OB, you mark your lie where it went out with penalty and maybe a lost disc if not retrievable.

Now this is a rule that's just nonsense and i personally would never enforce it. Should be changed.

You can now drink in PDGA leagues. I guess they realized that the vast majority of leagues aren't sanctioned and wanted to remove one barrier.

Yay for chill rounds

If I decide to make a new basket exactly the same as our usual DGUK Castle basket but with chains hanging on down through the cage towards the ground and another ring holding them at ground height this would still meet PDGA approval ( as far as I can see) and if the chains under the basket caught a disc this would count as holed out as per above wording?

My guess is that such a basket would no longer be approved.

 

[BillFleming]

Now this is a rule that's just nonsense and i personally would never enforce it. Should be changed. .

It should NOT be changed. Real world example - I played in a tournament (Non sanctioned) and a player's disc was heading towards water where another player on the card was standing. Throwing player yelled 'stop it' and the player did so. The disc was stopped ar the edge of the water. The throwing player claimed the disc never went in the water/OB so they couldn't be penalized. It came down to the TD ruling that the disc never went in the water...so no penalty for the thrower. But the player who stopped the disc was penalized for interference.

 

[Smigles]

It should NOT be changed. Real world example - I played in a tournament (Non sanctioned) and a player's disc was heading towards water where another player on the card was standing. Throwing player yelled 'stop it' and the player did so. The disc was stopped ar the edge of the water. The throwing player claimed the disc never went in the water/OB so they couldn't be penalized. It came down to the TD ruling that the disc never went in the water...so no penalty for the thrower. But the player who stopped the disc was penalized for interference.

oh then i misread that.

I meant in a case where you run a crazy deathput and have a guy stopping the disc before it goes into the water, but of course taking the OB stroke and playing from the waters edge with the next. After agreeing on it before you take the shot.

In the scenario you described i would not touch the disc as long as it is in play.

 

[txmxer]

It should NOT be changed. Real world example - I played in a tournament (Non sanctioned) and a player's disc was heading towards water where another player on the card was standing. Throwing player yelled 'stop it' and the player did so. The disc was stopped ar the edge of the water. The throwing player claimed the disc never went in the water/OB so they couldn't be penalized. It came down to the TD ruling that the disc never went in the water...so no penalty for the thrower. But the player who stopped the disc was penalized for interference.

I wouldn't have polite words for the player throwing the disc and claiming no penalty.

That would not be acceptable and wouldn't be scored as you describe it.

 

[robdeforge]

I wouldn't have polite words for the player throwing the disc and claiming no penalty.

That would not be acceptable and wouldn't be scored as you describe it.

810
E A player who intentionally interferes with a disc in any of the following ways
receives two penalty throws:
1 . Altering the course of a thrown disc (other than to prevent injury);

seems like 2 penalty throws for the player that grabbed the disc is appropriate. not sure what is the appropriate penalty for the player who requested their disc be interfered with?

 

[1978]

B. Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed.

What is this rule trying to enforce. For example here are some situations.

Which of the following situations is NOT allowed.
1. Snow poles like the ones golfers use for feet alignment
2. drawing a line with your foot behind your lie pointing at your target
3. placing a stick behind your lie to make sure your feet are not foot faulting
4. Walking down the fairway and tying a strip of flagging tape to the gap you want to hit
5. Sending a caddy down the fairway to stand next to a gap that you want to hit.
6. Caddy stays in front of the group or the group has a spotter that indicates wind direction from the landing zone using hand signals
7. Using a mini with an Arrow printed on it that you point in the direction you want to throw.

 

[BillFleming]

B. Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed.

What is this rule trying to enforce. For example here are some situations.

Which of the following situations is NOT allowed.
1. Snow poles like the ones golfers use for feet alignment
2. drawing a line with your foot behind your lie pointing at your target
3. placing a stick behind your lie to make sure your feet are not foot faulting
4. Walking down the fairway and tying a strip of flagging tape to the gap you want to hit
5. Sending a caddy down the fairway to stand next to a gap that you want to hit.
6. Caddy stays in front of the group or the group has a spotter that indicates wind direction from the landing zone using hand signals
7. Using a mini with an Arrow printed on it that you point in the direction you want to throw.

None of that is allowed. As I understand the rule, for a blind shot, like over a hill, you can have someone stand on the line, but they must move before you throw. But you can't mark the line/direction for shots where you can see the target. I think that is wrong....in ball golf, you can use an item to indicate your line, but you must remove the item before you take your swing. So, I can put another club to aid taking my stance, but it has to be removed before I swing. We can't do that in disc golf, but it sure would help beginners to be able to put something down to indicate their line before they take their stance.

 

[1978]

None of that is allowed. As I understand the rule, for a blind shot, like over a hill, you can have someone stand on the line, but they must move before you throw. But you can't mark the line/direction for shots where you can see the target. I think that is wrong....in ball golf, you can use an item to indicate your line, but you must remove the item before you take your swing. So, I can put another club to aid taking my stance, but it has to be removed before I swing. We can't do that in disc golf, but it sure would help beginners to be able to put something down to indicate their line before they take their stance.

I was told by multiple PDGA marshals this week that all were allowed except tying flagging tape. I just copied and pasted my question to them here. Perhaps some clarification is needed.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The directional aid rule originated from the principle to discourage moving or adding objects on the course during the round, particularly in front of your lie, so those movements or additions do not change the course for other players following your group. That's why the marshals nixed the flagging tape option (even if you promised to remove it) but did not consider the temporary "directional aids" and marking the dirt behind your lie as improper.

 

[robdeforge]

B. Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed.

What is this rule trying to enforce. For example here are some situations.

Which of the following situations is NOT allowed...
5. Sending a caddy down the fairway to stand next to a gap that you want to hit.

not allowed

 

[BillFleming]

not allowed

The caddy can't stand on the line, but they can show you the line to the basket, but then they must move. At least that is my understanding. I or my cardmates, can walk to where we can see the fairway and tell others, "the target is that way", but then we have to come back to the lie or move away from the line.

 

[BillFleming]

I was told by multiple PDGA marshals this week that all were allowed except tying flagging tape. I just copied and pasted my question to them here. Perhaps some clarification is needed.

I could be wrong, but I've understood that you can't have anything that is marking the line when you throw....so the line in the dirt and others wouldn't be allowed.

 

[robdeforge]

The caddy can't stand on the line, but they can show you the line to the basket, but then they must move. At least that is my understanding. I or my cardmates, can walk to where we can see the fairway and tell others, "the target is that way", but then we have to come back to the lie or move away from the line.

good clarification, this matches my understanding as well. Although I don't see anything in Q&A or elsewhere to back it up

 

[chevis]

seems like 2 penalty throws for the player that grabbed the disc is appropriate. not sure what is the appropriate penalty for the player who requested their disc be interfered with?

courtesy violation (warning) or intentional abuse of rules

 

[Dcinmd]

I could be wrong, but I've understood that you can't have anything that is marking the line when you throw....so the line in the dirt and others wouldn't be allowed.

What is the difference between marking the ground behind your lie and standing at your lie looking down the fairway?

As long as they are not destroying the fairway or they are not exceeding their allotted time I could care less.

 

[BillFleming]

What is the difference between marking the ground behind your lie and standing at your lie looking down the fairway?

As long as they are not destroying the fairway or they are not exceeding their allotted time I could care less.

I think most people quote/look at Rule 813.02.A Illegal Device.

Placing an object as a directional aid is not allowed.

But that is an object and, yes, a caddy/cardmate/etc can be considered an object.

I haven't found anything that says you can't mark the line of play, EXCEPT for 813.02 banning an object as a directional aid. So a line in the dirt should be allowed - or even a chalk line on the teepad. But, I keep being told that I can't do it. I think people believe it violates 802.06 Marking the Lie - where you can only use the thrown disc or a mini marker.

Unless, I'm missing a rule somewhere or misunderstanding one....as long as it's not an object it should be good to use as a directional aid.