New Competition Manual and Rules

[Cgkdisc]

Hard to define Play Area in a sport where designers can deliberately create non-playing areas on a playing surface that would normally be a Play Area.

 

[dmoore1998]

The playing area is not defined to my knowledge. (IMHO, it should be added to the index. Mike? AM I missing this?)

However, when I marshal I define the playing area as anywhere the disc could logically go, even in error.

This rule is clearly about safety and players, IMHO, should always give leeway if a player thinks he or she might hit someone.

If we use this definition, can a DGPT event with spectators basically give someone unlimited time to throw if we have something like DGLO where spectators line the fairways in some places? Or maybe the playing area can never be OB?

 

[Steve West]

If we use this definition, can a DGPT event with spectators basically give someone unlimited time to throw if we have something like DGLO where spectators line the fairways in some places?

Yes.

Or maybe the playing area can never be OB?

As has been pointed out, OB can be part of the playing area.

Whatever it takes to avoid hitting people with flying discs.

Fortunately, the player can request that the spectators be moved. If all that causes delays, that's on the TD for allowing spectators in the playing area.

 

[Steve West]

...

With player's who like to 'push' the rules....without a definition it is open to wide interpretations and who could call a player on it when there's no definition?

...

It's actually easier in some cases to push the rules when there are sharp edges. Imagine the two following scenarios:

"Hey, get throwing! According to eight oh whatever subsection something that lady is over a specified number of feet away from the edge of a wedge with a certain degree of angle from the line of play."

vs.

"Is she out of range?" "Dunno, better wait."

I'm OK with players waiting for a duck. If they try to use it as an excuse for the wind to die down, two other players can make a call.

 

[_MTL_]

If we use this definition, can a DGPT event with spectators basically give someone unlimited time to throw if we have something like DGLO where spectators line the fairways in some places? Or maybe the playing area can never be OB?

sure, randomly. but at some point, pace of play rule kicks in.

All competitors shall play without undue delay and make every effort to keep up with the group in front of them. Players are expected to quickly move from the completion of one hole to the tee area of the next hole. Any undue delay should not affect the pace of play within the group behind them. Also, while advancing down the fairway, a player shall not unduly delay play by their actions.

A player causing undue delays may be issued an excessive time violation by agreement of the playing group or a Tournament Official (see 802.03, Excessive Time).

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competit...all play without,within the group behind them.

 

[_MTL_]

If we use this definition, can a DGPT event with spectators basically give someone unlimited time to throw if we have something like DGLO where spectators line the fairways in some places? Or maybe the playing area can never be OB?

should add that if someone says they feel spectators are in their way, we move them and consider this the playing area and the clock is stopped. But at some point, pace of play rule kicks in. Like most things in officiating, judgement has to be made when that line is crossed.

 

[robdeforge]

Why?

because if somebody like, idk, Nikko, becomes aware of the specificity of this change, he will use it to his advantage and try to game the rules. and other people will see him doing so and think it's ok and emulate that behavior.

 

[biscoe]

sure, randomly. but at some point, pace of play rule kicks in.

All competitors shall play without undue delay and make every effort to keep up with the group in front of them. Players are expected to quickly move from the completion of one hole to the tee area of the next hole. Any undue delay should not affect the pace of play within the group behind them. Also, while advancing down the fairway, a player shall not unduly delay play by their actions.

A player causing undue delays may be issued an excessive time violation by agreement of the playing group or a Tournament Official (see 802.03, Excessive Time).

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competit...all play without,within the group behind them.

Has this violation ever actually been called by either the group (highly unlikely imo) or an official (somewhat more likely)?

 

[_MTL_]

Has this violation ever actually been called by either the group (highly unlikely imo) or an official (somewhat more likely)?

Not to my knowledge.

I've alluded to it; "hey guys, you are three holes behind the card ahead of you. I can start timing each shot if I need to."

 

[txmxer]

Not to my knowledge.

I've alluded to it; "hey guys, you are three holes behind the card ahead of you. I can start timing each shot if I need to."

Careful...

 

[Steve West]

Has this violation ever actually been called by either the group (highly unlikely imo) or an official (somewhat more likely)?

I mentioned the rule once as an official. Three players turned to look at the fourth. The fourth just never knew there was any kind of time limit.

 

[_MTL_]

Undue delay was much more likely to be called when distractions reset the clock. "dude, the bird 200 feet away is not distracting you. You just don't want to putt in this wind. Undue delay!"

The only time I would call it would be if an entire group was being overly ridiculous and constantly calling playing area distractions to reset clock to allow for better wind, taking 29.9 seconds to tap out over and over, etc. It would have to be egregious and clearly to create issues / gain advantages.

 

[Steve West]

....

 

[dmoore1998]

sure, randomly. but at some point, pace of play rule kicks in.

All competitors shall play without undue delay and make every effort to keep up with the group in front of them. Players are expected to quickly move from the completion of one hole to the tee area of the next hole. Any undue delay should not affect the pace of play within the group behind them. Also, while advancing down the fairway, a player shall not unduly delay play by their actions.

A player causing undue delays may be issued an excessive time violation by agreement of the playing group or a Tournament Official (see 802.03, Excessive Time).

https://www.pdga.com/rules/competit...all play without,within the group behind them.

It would seem tough to call it "undue delays" if the delays are caused by them following the rules though. Which is pretty hypothetical anyways since we're talking specifically about pro tour and spectators, and officials don't call penalties when cards are multiple holes behind the group ahead of them nor if players are simply standing over short putts for over a minute.

The problem is "judgement" because of the overwhelming sentiment that if there is ANY leeway or a crack in the rules...there's no violation called.

 

[_MTL_]

It would seem tough to call it "undue delays" if the delays are caused by them following the rules though. Which is pretty hypothetical anyways since we're talking specifically about pro tour and spectators, and officials don't call penalties when cards are multiple holes behind the group ahead of them nor if players are simply standing over short putts for over a minute.

The problem is "judgement" because of the overwhelming sentiment that if there is ANY leeway or a crack in the rules...there's no violation called.

correct. Which is why I stated above "The only time I would call it would be if an entire group was being overly ridiculous and constantly calling playing area distractions to reset clock to allow for better wind, taking 29.9 seconds to tap out over and over, etc. It would have to be egregious and clearly to create issues / gain advantages."

 

[peabody]

So the ole Mando tree becomes a plane. I hit the thing I have crossed the plane and barring a drop zone I re-tee throwing three even though the disc ends up on the correct side of the Mando tree?

 

[coupe]

So the ole Mando tree becomes a plane. I hit the thing I have crossed the plane and barring a drop zone I re-tee throwing three even though the disc ends up on the correct side of the Mando tree?

Depends on how the mando plane is defined: if the tree itself is not defined as being within the mando plane, play proceeds from where the thrown disc lies; if the tree itself is defined being within the mando plane, consequently, play from the previous lie (which may not necessarily be the tee, e.g., you shanked your tee shot deep into the schule short of the mando, took three throws to pitch out to the fairway, then missed the mando on your 5th throw.:doh::doh::doh:).

 

[_MTL_]

So the ole Mando tree becomes a plane. I hit the thing I have crossed the plane and barring a drop zone I re-tee throwing three even though the disc ends up on the correct side of the Mando tree?

Easiest way to think about it:

Mandos = here's a line you cannot cross at any point on this hole. If I cross it at any point, it's a penalty.

OB = here's a line you cannot come to rest beyond at any point on this hold. If I come to rest past that at any point, its a penalty.

I'm not saying you, but people have way overcomplicated this over the last year and it's as simple as I posted.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Easiest way to think about it:

Mandos = here's a line you cannot cross at any point on this hole. If I cross it at any point, it's a penalty.

OB = here's a line you cannot come to rest beyond at any point on this hold. If I come to rest past that at any point, its a penalty.

I'm not saying you, but people have way overcomplicated this over the last year and it's as simple as I posted.

It's not the "simplicity" of a line in the rules but it's how to define, mark, inform players, see and retain the markings well enough to make proper calls in the field.

 

[Steve West]

It's not the "simplicity" of a line in the rules but it's how to define, mark, inform players, see and retain the markings well enough to make proper calls in the field.

Which is an indictment of all lines.