320-330ft. cant get past this...

[Goon13]

Just for fun, I did a quick Google search of what speed a high school senior is expected to be able to pitch. It seems like 75-80mph is normal. 85-90mph is really good. Seeing as top professional pitchers are in the mid 90's, that 75%-80% number seems about dead on.

Here's a site that compares average pitching speed with age group:

http://www.efastball.com/baseball/pitching/grips/average-pitching-speed-by-age-group/

If a 95 mph fastball is roughly equivalent to a 600' throw, then someone who maxes out at 400' (~350' of golf D) is roughly equivalent to a 12-14 year old pitcher. I'd call that a discrepancy between sports.

This is the main reason I jumped into this thread. A high school athlete is in the top 1% to 10% of his age group in ability. Think about it, nearly every kids starts out playing baseball, but by the time they have reached high school only a handful are still playing due to ability (and interest).

So the high school kid throwing a 75 mph fastball is a top performer for his age group. Most kids his age cannot throw that fast.

I saw a number of statements that said everybody should be able to throw 400 ft. I disagree. I think everybody who has the ability to throw a 75 mph fastball could, but those are few in number. There are people out there that no matter how hard they train and how perfect their form is will never be able to throw 400 ft. I don't want to discourage anybody from trying, but don't be disappointed if you top out at 300 or 350 ft. That is still a good throw.

And stop bringing in the gender card as an argument for everybody can throw 400 ft. Top fast pitch softball pitchers reach speeds in excess of 75 mph. Faster then most of us can throw.

 

[ilmcgee]

Ever seen Sports Science, the top female softball pitcher smashes the instrument they were using to record the force of her pitch. A top male college pitcher nailed it but came nowhere near smashing it.

 

[ilmcgee]

I would side with technique, I throw FH 400+ and BH right around 300. Same person, completely different results due to form from side to side.

 

[eegor]

My distance is decreasing as my arthritis increases (this is why I don't mind the heat). It's reality. I posted the link to Paige Pierce to show that you don't need big muscles to throw far... just great form. At the moment, I can throw about 300-325ft. Sometimes I get it out to 350-360ft. I've found that with accurate 250-275ft drives with fairway drivers, I can par or birdie most disc golf holes (500ft and under - par 3). I've also found that throwing from the fairway is a lot more fun than throwing from the rough / thicket. If you want to be good at this game, the D to work on is direction. If you want to be great at this game, my advise is useless to you. I suggest Blake T on DGR.

As for greatness... as with all sports, some are blessed with natural ability that allows them to be great. The rest of us must accept what we are and have fun playing a fun game.

 

[Triflusal]

I played a round with a college baseball pitcher. He could throw 400 ft. He never took his eyes off the basket, so there was little core involvement. Didn't hear the snap of his hand during the release. It looked to be all arm strength, but it's my perception - not a detailed high speed analysis.

what disc was he using?

 

[jongoff09]

Top fast pitch softball pitchers reach speeds in excess of 75 mph. Faster then most of us can throw.

Ever seen Sports Science, the top female softball pitcher smashes the instrument they were using to record the force of her pitch. A top male college pitcher nailed it but came nowhere near smashing it.

Y'all do realize that fastpitch softball pitchers are using a totally different throwing motion and ball than a baseball pitcher. That's why they throw faster, and the ball broke the machine (they are also able to pitch much more because it is not as hard on the body to do their motion). It's comparing apples to oranges. If one of the softball pitchers threw like a baseball pitcher with a baseball, or a baseball pitcher learn to throw like a softball pitcher with a softball then you have a more accurate comparison.

 

[Lithicon]

It's as simple as timing. All of you argueing with short distances havn't figured out timing. You "feel" like you have but you havn't! Those on the side of timing know the difference.

Just as an example and don't mean to call anyone out. Mike C posted on here about his form, everyone that doesn't know timing looks and says perfect! You're throwing 400'+. Go back and read that thread you'll see a select few talking about timing. His timing is Still off! But, you're going to day that's because he's strong and doesn't need timing. Bull****, look at the comments. His timing is better than most that throw less distance. He even admitted himself he felt off. Most of the timing he seeks now is in his wrist. Which is essentially the absolute hardest part to learn. He can improve his pull timing and consistantly hit 450'+. with proper wrist timing he can easily add 100' to that. Not saying his wrist is completely off , because it isn't. It's just not nearly as good as it should be to throw 500' consistantly.


Once you know what timing can do, you'll realize that power is mute. It might not add up to 500' for every physically capable individual. From teenagers to well into the 40's I'm going to say 400' SHOULD be the average.

 

[Lithicon]

You know what, I'll take part of what I said back. It's not ALL timing. There is one key area you need strength. Your hand; grip strength plays one phenominal role in throwing far. But, it only has to be equivilant to the forces generated by the throw. So it's far less than you'd expect as once you reach a certan grip strength. The increase gains drop dramatically. But, this is minute as hell compared to timing.

 

[jsun3thousand]

what i think lithicon is trying to say, in a nice way, is that it's about being naturally athletic and working out.

 

[garublador]

I know this is a situation where I'm arguing against people experiencing cognitive dissonance, but I'll assume some people who are reading don't have it and are interested in what it actually takes to throw far.

So the high school kid throwing a 75 mph fastball is a top performer for his age group. Most kids his age cannot throw that fast.

Read the site again. A 75 mph fastball is the low end of the average speed for a high school pitcher. The 75 mph guys get ignored by the scouts because they're a dime a dozen. They're a dime a dozen because everyone can learn to pitch like that. To compete at a high level you need to learn to throw correctly and have the extra physical attributes. Those extra physical attributes are what gets you from 75 mph to 90 mph...which is less than 25%, not 40%+ like you see in disc golf now.

The kids that can't throw that fast haven't spent the time learning how to throw that fast. It takes a lot of work and coaching. Work most disc golfers aren't willing put in and coaching most disc golfers don't have access to. The only baseball players willing to put in the work are the ones who really like pitching. I can't throw a 75mph fastball but I also haven't been coached on it and working at it for 10 years like high school pitchers have.

It's as simple as timing. All of you argueing with short distances havn't figured out timing. You "feel" like you have but you havn't! Those on the side of timing know the difference.

That's exactly it. I've been on both sides (I spend most of my time on the non snap side) and there is a 50'+ difference between a throw with and without the right timing. It's why I occasionally find a Wizard sitting next to an Avenger out at 360' when I do field practice. If you aren't at least pushing 350' out of mids and you are older than 16 or so, you don't have snap. I didn't magically gain superhuman strength when I threw the Wizard, I hit the timing just right. If you think you're getting the timing right but aren't throwing really far, I guarantee you that you aren't getting the timing right.

FWIW, you don't even need snap to throw a disc 400'. You just need to get everything else right and hit the right line with the right disc.

 

[811rv]

I agree with garublador. I went to field yesterday with stack of Lat64 Cores (and some Voodoo/Ion/Diamond/Flick (for overhead)).

My average with Core was around 250' with best around 275'. Voodoo/Ion is around 230'-240' with Ion slightly ahead of Evo Voodoo. Diamond is around 300' with best around 330'.

Believe me, I think 24/7 of how can I throw 400'. Read DGR/DGCR technique section all the time, watching YouTube videos (Nikko, Will, you name it) all the time in slo-motion, even had one to one session with what I think is the best DG driving coach out there now, Blake T. Oh man, I guess I have not found right timing yet. I tried to focus on different parts of my body and I tried everything I could and I guess I have not clicked on it yet. I just keep trying!

I am tempted to fly to Minnesota again and work with Blake T for number of days until I finally get it right!

I hope I'll be like "roman" who just finally discovered the right timing/snap recently after couple of years of working on them. See the last part of Page 22 in a sticky thread called "The "Incomplete" Secret Technique" at DGR.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19220&start=315

Man, I know I ll reach my goal of 400', it is matter of time

 

[Norcal]

If it's all about technique, then why haven't all the technique gurus on this board achieved 1000+ ratings? Simple answer: they don't possess the same athletic ability as the top players.

 

[Triflusal]

If it's all about technique, then why haven't all the technique gurus on this board achieved 1000+ ratings? Simple answer: they don't possess the same athletic ability as the top players.

or they can teach and understand but they cant do, because of injury, time, coordination and other factors. lots of them dont even play tournaments. and, driving far does not guarantee an 1000+ rating. putting is just as important.

let me give you an example. Dan Beto vs Chris Hysell. Dan is currently rated 984 and can throw 500+ feet. Chris is rated 972 and can throw maybe 350 max. now why is it that their ratings are so similar but their distance is so different? putting. 500'+ does not make a pro.

 

[garublador]

If it's all about technique, then why haven't all the technique gurus on this board achieved 1000+ ratings? Simple answer: they don't possess the same athletic ability as the top players.

Or it might be becasue we're talking about distance and not about scoring. No one is arguing that throwing far will make you a pro, we're saying that throwing far is about technique that anyone can learn given enough coaching and work. We also aren't saying that it's feasible for most people to achieve that technique, just that it's possible.

 

[Norcal]

So with distance it's about technique, but with scoring its about athleticism? Hmmmm, I'm not buying it.

 

[Triflusal]

So with distance it's about technique, but with scoring its about athleticism? Hmmmm, I'm not buying it.

are you thick or just pretending?

WITH SCORING ITS ABOUT PUTTING, AS WELL AS DISTANCE. UPSHOTS ARE HELPFUL TOO

i put it in caps to more effectively communicate, hopefully you will understand.

 

[Norcal]

or they can teach and understand but they cant do, because of injury, time, coordination and other factors. lots of them dont even play tournaments. and, driving far does not guarantee an 1000+ rating. putting is just as important.

let me give you an example. Dan Beto vs Chris Hysell. Dan is currently rated 984 and can throw 500+ feet. Chris is rated 972 and can throw maybe 350 max. now why is it that their ratings are so similar but their distance is so different? putting. 500'+ does not make a pro.

I agree, distance is just one aspect of the game. Putting, accuracy and consistency are important too.

Why cant hysell break 350? Injury or bad technique or what?

 

[garublador]

So with distance it's about technique, but with scoring its about athleticism? Hmmmm, I'm not buying it.

Athleticism isn't enough to score well. You have to have a full set of skills you can perform consistently. That requires a repeatable drive with the ability to shape many lines, good upshots and get out of trouble shots, really good putting and a really good mental game. Athleticism helps gain those things, but I'd pick an out of shape pro disc golfer to beat a top decathlete who hasn't touched a disc before every single time.

You can "buy" anything you want. I'm not selling anything. I don't care if any one person learns to throw farther or not. I don't care about my DG cred. No one who plays seriously knows who I am through disc golf. The only reason I have that banner is because other people on the forum think that the stuff I say is useful and worth listening to. I didn't ask for it or campaign for it. I doubt I've met a single person on here in person (unless Blake T. has an account, I have met him once). I don't get anything from it. I just want to most accurate information available for the people who do want it.

 

[Norcal]

are you thick or just pretending?

WITH SCORING ITS ABOUT PUTTING, AS WELL AS DISTANCE. UPSHOTS ARE HELPFUL TOO

i put it in caps to more effectively communicate, hopefully you will understand.

Woah, calm down buddy. Seems I touched on a sore spot. This isnt supposed to be personal.

 

[Triflusal]

I agree, distance is just one aspect of the game. Putting, accuracy and consistency are important too.

Why cant hysell break 350? Injury or bad technique or what?

ask him and you will probably get a story about how badass he is.

the main reason I would say is he doesnt care. he is happy with his game. thats what im guessing by the way he brags and whatnot

the caps lock for effective communication is really an inside joke, its not personal