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Cat is very Swedish style, vertical shoulder plane = vertical arm/shoulder going down/forward(tilted spiral). First time I tried Linus Astrom's overhead Swedish style the disc left my hand like a rocket.
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~400' BH and ~325' FH Help
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slowplastic
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That makes sense. But even in regular(?) style throws I now see this same arm motion that I felt today. Avery punches that arm straight down and he's very vertical (so it just looks like it goes in close, but from my perspective now he pushes it downwards).
It's just one of those things I never thought of like that until I saw Cat's throw from that angle. I hope it keeps working and it's not the usual setback of something great today disappears tomorrow.
It's just one of those things I never thought of like that until I saw Cat's throw from that angle. I hope it keeps working and it's not the usual setback of something great today disappears tomorrow.
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Avery whips arm backward like GG and PP.
slowplastic
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Ok, I got back from the field and it was pretty successful. Still room for improvement though. It was very windy out with swirly right to left wind...enough that trash cans all over sidewalks were getting knocked over. In this video the two backhand throws are hyzer flips with a beat star Destroyer, both ~420'. I've never thrown that far in bad wind conditions before. I also threw a dead straight to fade shot with a World 400', that was getting the elevator rise and falls along the way.
The second shot (from the back) I had better balance on in the follow through. But both went well. I have been trying to stride more towards the target, and end up on the plant foot after transfer. I am also trying to bring my left arm down and in, by bringing my hand down to my thigh. I can see that still has room for improvement, but it's already feeling MUCH better this way.
I also included a forehand, just a 70% power shot. I think my elbow position/release is better now. But I'm obviously a little off balance after follow through. Any advice on this? Am I not getting the correct hip to shoulder separation?
https://vimeo.com/170684094
The second shot (from the back) I had better balance on in the follow through. But both went well. I have been trying to stride more towards the target, and end up on the plant foot after transfer. I am also trying to bring my left arm down and in, by bringing my hand down to my thigh. I can see that still has room for improvement, but it's already feeling MUCH better this way.
I also included a forehand, just a 70% power shot. I think my elbow position/release is better now. But I'm obviously a little off balance after follow through. Any advice on this? Am I not getting the correct hip to shoulder separation?
https://vimeo.com/170684094
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You start swinging too early both BH and FH. BH you need to turn your front foot/side more back away from target at the plant and plant more inline to rear foot(your stance is too closed left-right wise on tee pad and not turned back enough on the front side) so you are planting a bit open on the hip and swaying to the left a bit and not clearing the front hip back(butt wipe). Your rear foot slides forward to the left instead of to the right. I'd stride the front foot so the heel is just above the ground/more level with toes which should change your balance more upright. You are too far forward over your rear toes and too far behind your front toes looking at behind the tee.
HyzerUniBomber
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Move that disc deeper. I know it's hard... I struggle with it mightily. But the extension out front is where it's at. Get it deep.
SW22 caught me on this and to be honest, I can't tell if it's the lens distortion or not - but I just got back from doing some fieldwork to get my "nose over the toes" and I threw a truth, and 2 rocs just shy of 400' in a tail wind. The sensation was noticeable in that when I got over the disc and my knee and my toes - it's like the hinges are greased.
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slowplastic
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Thank you, that's so many details I couldn't pick up on (other than my swing starts earlier than pro's still).
Do you suggest striding with a level foot and then going toe-hell on plant?
Do you suggest striding with a level foot and then going toe-hell on plant?
slowplastic
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Thanks HUB. In your markup with the vertical blue lines, how should things be ideally?
slowplastic
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NM, I looked at your thread that SW22 marked up and I'll try to go from there. Obviously it's tricky with different camera angles. But I'm not centered the right way. And I've probably been tipping forward from the left foot to transfer weight, rather than being more dynamically balanced. There's some things wrong. But that's ok, if I'm hitting 420' in winds with things wrong...that means I have some distance to gain.
HyzerUniBomber
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I drew a tiny little light arrow on that image to where you want to get to start the extension from the hand on the outside. The green line is the disc, which you've brought forward on a tilted angle.
HyzerUniBomber
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Yeah bro! You're doing a bunch of stuff right and I can tell that you're gonna start putting the little things together and be absolutely blasting some discs.
slowplastic
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Yeah this is a good thing. What I don't want to hear, is to be maxed out under 450' and the only advice is to "throw harder" or try flex lines.
slowplastic
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Thank you guys so much for the advice. I had the opportunity to throw into a net today with slow motion video, and I made some breakthroughs. I have no idea how much distance this translates to, but it feels more like it looks to watch the pro's throw, and I bet it's farther than I usually throw. There are some issues (disc off plane in right pec, left arm not as "in" as I'd like), but I feel like overall it's the best form I've had.
I tried to stride at the target, load my hips internally, reachback later, and stay balanced between the feet to get over that plant foot/toes. I feel like I have an open space to swing through, and I'm ejecting the disc later, farther forward, at the target. Of course, I'd like to hear where to go from here. I can't wait to find out what distance this gets me.
Also I included a forehand shot, trying to push off my right foot toes and let my hips fire/shift a bit before my arm.
https://vimeo.com/170894872
https://vimeo.com/170894911
I tried to stride at the target, load my hips internally, reachback later, and stay balanced between the feet to get over that plant foot/toes. I feel like I have an open space to swing through, and I'm ejecting the disc later, farther forward, at the target. Of course, I'd like to hear where to go from here. I can't wait to find out what distance this gets me.
Also I included a forehand shot, trying to push off my right foot toes and let my hips fire/shift a bit before my arm.
https://vimeo.com/170894872
https://vimeo.com/170894911
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Looking better. You are shrugging up your shoulder and pulling with your elbow, relax it and let the body/shoulder swing the arm/disc forward. There's too much lag/hugging between your shoulder and arm/disc. Keep the arm tauter/wider and moving more together, your arm swing should not allow the disc to come over the elbow much if any. It's like your shoulders are turning and your elbow is bending at the same time, but you lose connection between the two because the upper arm collapses too much in the transition. Keep your elbow straighter as your shoulders start going forward(not around), your elbow should start bending as it catches up and the lower arm/disc lags. You would be pulling the Door Frame with your arm/elbow instead of your weight/body/shoulder at your plant. Dingle Arm should help as well.
slowplastic
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So basically by trying to get to the right pec/elbow forward position, I am causing tension in my shoulder and bringing the disc in ahead of where/when my body should be doing so, which causes it to "bunch up" and get pulled above my elbow? Should I be reaching back any wider, or just trying to maintain a wider angle after dropping into the plant?
I see and realize what you mean, that I'd be pulling the door frame with my arm the way that I am doing it in my throws. Do you feel like you need to help guide the disc forward to the right pec position at some point, or do things tend to take care of themself, seeing as I have an idea of where the hit point should be?
I see and realize what you mean, that I'd be pulling the door frame with my arm the way that I am doing it in my throws. Do you feel like you need to help guide the disc forward to the right pec position at some point, or do things tend to take care of themself, seeing as I have an idea of where the hit point should be?
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It's like you are snapping your elbow straight locked out/hyper extended in the top of your backswing/transition and it then jerks back forward, instead of keeping some bend and tautness in the elbow/shoulder through the transition. There's some slight guiding the disc, but it's mostly just automatic like releasing from the door frame.
slowplastic
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Another update. Video of backhand and forehand included.
The backhand I tried to stay balanced over my toes/athletic tilted spiral and turn back rather than stride backward. I tried to keep a wide reachback and not pull the disc with my arm from the reachback, instead initiating this with the hips. It feels smoother/easier/more proper. I have only done this into a net so far. It didn't result in faster ejections but instead easier ejections at my normal max speed. The disc still gets slightly above my elbow but much less than it used to. I also tried to get my elbow forward/disc near body.
Am I starting the reach back too early? It is a little tough for me to compare from this camera angle compared to the standard "lead card driving" 4x4 video. What else am I missing here? This feels like an improvement but I'm still not getting a boost in disc ejection speed.
https://vimeo.com/177158780
My forehand has been improving. I am now getting ~350' on flat throws with straight-stable discs (little turn, little fade). Downhill forehands are carrying much farther than before. I moved my elbow slightly farther from my body, so instead of it swinging under my shoulder it now feels about 30-45 degrees from my torso. But, Ricky or Koling could throw my max distance with very little effort. What am I missing or doing wrong here?
https://vimeo.com/177158893
The backhand I tried to stay balanced over my toes/athletic tilted spiral and turn back rather than stride backward. I tried to keep a wide reachback and not pull the disc with my arm from the reachback, instead initiating this with the hips. It feels smoother/easier/more proper. I have only done this into a net so far. It didn't result in faster ejections but instead easier ejections at my normal max speed. The disc still gets slightly above my elbow but much less than it used to. I also tried to get my elbow forward/disc near body.
Am I starting the reach back too early? It is a little tough for me to compare from this camera angle compared to the standard "lead card driving" 4x4 video. What else am I missing here? This feels like an improvement but I'm still not getting a boost in disc ejection speed.
https://vimeo.com/177158780
My forehand has been improving. I am now getting ~350' on flat throws with straight-stable discs (little turn, little fade). Downhill forehands are carrying much farther than before. I moved my elbow slightly farther from my body, so instead of it swinging under my shoulder it now feels about 30-45 degrees from my torso. But, Ricky or Koling could throw my max distance with very little effort. What am I missing or doing wrong here?
https://vimeo.com/177158893
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Yes, too early or too far "reachback". If you watch Roan, he is turned back early(which I don't normally recommend), but notice he still pumps the disc forward/targetward and keeps the disc in place/leaves it behind/stays back/abandons it gravity while he moves forward into the plant.
Going back forward you tend to curl your arm a bit pulling the disc upward/elbow down/shoulder up, so the disc is curling into your swing like a bicep curl, instead of a level swing from should/elbow/disc like Jared does.
Also notice Jared's front shoulder is more forward over the front knee and his head/side of his face is braced against the inside of the ankle(centripetal face) and plenty of space between his ear and shoulders, so his posture is perfect dynamically upright on a tilted spiral. Your shoulder is behind your knee and your head is facing past your front ankle and shrugged your shoulder into your ear during the swing.
Going back forward you tend to curl your arm a bit pulling the disc upward/elbow down/shoulder up, so the disc is curling into your swing like a bicep curl, instead of a level swing from should/elbow/disc like Jared does.
Also notice Jared's front shoulder is more forward over the front knee and his head/side of his face is braced against the inside of the ankle(centripetal face) and plenty of space between his ear and shoulders, so his posture is perfect dynamically upright on a tilted spiral. Your shoulder is behind your knee and your head is facing past your front ankle and shrugged your shoulder into your ear during the swing.
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FH, your elbow starts going forward before your shoulder/weight shifts/front foot plants. You are putting a lot of stress on your elbow with it leading so far ahead of your weight and shoulder and putting a very large angle on it.
slowplastic
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Great, thanks. I definitely do the "leave the disc in place" thing, but I think too early on. I especially noticed it with this last video. I agree too with my tilt in this video...in some other throws I felt the "pop up" out of the brace and very in balance, whereas in this throw I felt a bit leaned back like I would throw the disc too high. It's likely slightly better in some other throws I had but probably pretty similar.
The disc curl is definitely a problem of mine. It is better than before. I will continue with the wide reachback, and do that even later and keep it low. I hope the combination of these things with a wide upper arm to torso angle will keep the disc on the swing plane, rather than my usual pulling the disc forward which makes it bunch up/curl my arm.
The disc curl is definitely a problem of mine. It is better than before. I will continue with the wide reachback, and do that even later and keep it low. I hope the combination of these things with a wide upper arm to torso angle will keep the disc on the swing plane, rather than my usual pulling the disc forward which makes it bunch up/curl my arm.
