ALL Mach baskets should be outlawed in pro tournaments!

[Ender175]

Anyone have experience with the Prodigy cargo net baskets? curious how they compare to mach and discatcher baskets.

 

[Streets]

Anyone have experience with the Prodigy cargo net baskets? curious how they compare to mach and discatcher baskets.

It's like putting into a chainlink fence

 

[Tfire25]

Hole in the ground with a tone pole in the middle that sticks above the ground 4 feet. The hole in the ground would have an insert made of plastic or metal that would stunt weed growth. Rollers could then be aces.

Also, open would have to make it in the hole like what chuck said.

 

[lyleoross]

You seriously think anyone with a sponsorship isn't going to try to improve their lot with said sponsor by taking shots at the competition when the opportunity arises? C'om on man, that dog won't hunt. Wishes he hadn't? Why? What exactly is Discraft or the PDGA going to do about it? I'll tell you what they'll do...nothing.



Of course basket manufacturers are going to do that sort of thing. If they want to do that great. But my complaint is putting the responsibility on those volunteers that run events to switch out baskets to something compliant is onerous at best.

Correct, I don't think a player, for any reason, is going to do what you're suggesting. Let me see if I can hurt DGA and help Innova is silly. I understand conspiracies are fun but the concept of, "I'm gonna bash DGA on this minor and unprovable issue for whatever traction it gets me," is just too silly.

I'm not arguing whether manufacturers negotiate to get their baskets on courses, clearly they do. From there it isn't too much of a reach to negotiate something with two parties to help that process along. The fact that many events use temp baskets or switch baskets for events says it's very possible. Remember, Steve has his very own set of Mach Xs that showed up at Memorial.

 

[alfonseski]

Are their physical dimension parameters that the PDGA uses? I mean look at basketball. Every hoop has the same dimensions, the net may be different or the backboard. But the hoop is always the same. Now to compare, I would guess in the nba, the net and the backboard also have to be exactly the same. Which is why the DGPT is trying to do standards like this. I have only ever played Mach X's at Maple hill and I thought they were AMAZING. For me its basically all other baskets I have played on are similar, and then there are mach X's

 

[araytx]

I expect one day we will get a nearly foolproof basket design, and people will still complain about it!

I doubt that. I don't hear about basketball players complaining about the basket. I can't imagine a scenario sustaining itself if I basket is invented that keeps all good putts in and all bad putts out.

Dave Cox is local and one of the best putters I've seen. His disc always enters the basket on a hyzer angle. Even when it hits on the left side of the chains they are knocked down into the basket.
All of that (plus an ace) can be seen on this video.

To me this says it's the putting style and not the basket
He won the Worlds putting contest one year.

His putts are going to catch a lot even with the hyzer angle for one reason - they are on their way downward when they enter the chains. Feldberg preaches this style of putting - on it's way down at the basket. This is kind of what I meant when I was saying that putting well requires a certain level of finesse - you can't just blast it in there and hope it sticks, or if you do accept that there will be blow-bys and weird spits.

His putting style is perfect for those baskets that love softer touch/finesse .. AND little to no wind. That style of putting would be challenging in any significant headwind or R-to-L crosswind. He might could easily adjust to tailwind and L-to-R cross.
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I hope people end up talking about the DD Veterans next week, although, if nothing bad happens, maybe they won't which is in and of itself a positive comment/review. The "zig-zag" design on the top frame (inside the top rim) causes the outside chains to give at an angle rather than straight back when the disc hits chains, while at the same time the inner chains will go straight back. I think that part of the design helps it keep good putts in.

 

[alfonseski]

I doubt that. I don't hear about basketball players complaining about the basket. I can't imagine a scenario sustaining itself if I basket is invented that keeps all good putts in and all bad putts out.



This is actually not true, basketball players do complain about some baskets. I have played on baskets that are overly energetic, so if you hit the rim the ball bounces way to high, people complain about that. In that scenario you will never get a basket on the bounce

 

[ejvogie]

This is actually not true, basketball players do complain about some baskets. I have played on baskets that are overly energetic, so if you hit the rim the ball bounces way to high, people complain about that. In that scenario you will never get a basket on the bounce

To relate this to our discussion, getting a basket off the bounce is a bad shot that went in, not a good shot that should have gone in. Like hitting weak side chains with a putt.

 

[araytx]

I doubt that. I don't hear about basketball players complaining about the basket. I can't imagine a scenario sustaining itself if I basket is invented that keeps all good putts in and all bad putts out.



This is actually not true, basketball players do complain about some baskets. I have played on baskets that are overly energetic, so if you hit the rim the ball bounces way to high, people complain about that. In that scenario you will never get a basket on the bounce

That complaint is about the material the rim is made of ... i.e. "on bad shots the rebound goes too far...", NOT that a shot goes in the basket to the bottom of the net and comes out. C'mon, man!

To relate this to our discussion, getting a basket off the bounce is a bad shot that went in, not a good shot that should have gone in. Like hitting weak side chains with a putt.

No those two are not analogous. A basket off of a shot that hits the rim bounces up and comes down through the nets, is like a putt that hits the cage and/or top rim bounces and somehow goes in. And yes those are both bad shots that go in. But basketball doesn't have a shot that hits the bottom of the nets and bounces out. It just doesn't happen. SO, yes I'll give you flukiness of the bad shot that bounces up and goes in, but that's NOT the same as a weak side chain shot staying in.

 

[air show]

Putting for me is kind of like getting a strike in bowling. If I hit the pocket in bowling 9 times out of 10 I get the strike. With putting I have the same pocket and same result 9 out of 10. Most all the baskets I have played on in the Midwest would be fair catchers for tournament play I believe. With the exception of most home made baskets I have played on if you hit the sweet spot you get the basket. I recently had a chance to putt on a tone pole and thought it was easier than the traditional basket oddly enough.

 

[MarkDSM]

Leveling and replacing poles would help many baskets catch better and more consistent. A lot of aging Mach fives near me need rehab.

 

[ru4por]

Putting for me is kind of like getting a strike in bowling. If I hit the pocket in bowling 9 times out of 10 I get the strike. With putting I have the same pocket and same result 9 out of 10. Most all the baskets I have played on in the Midwest would be fair catchers for tournament play I believe. With the exception of most home made baskets I have played on if you hit the sweet spot you get the basket. I recently had a chance to putt on a tone pole and thought it was easier than the traditional basket oddly enough.

This seems like a pretty fair analogy. You can hit the pocket solid in bowling, but the difference in spin,, speed, angle or lift on follow through can leave a dangling chad. If you want a perfect game, maybe you should have to throw the perfect putt every time?

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

I doubt that. I don't hear about basketball players complaining about the basket. I can't imagine a scenario sustaining itself if I basket is invented that keeps all good putts in and all bad putts out.

I'm talking human nature here. For example, last years argument was the Pins are too big, making it too easy for the Pros. What is the point if a great drive/approach that is 10 feet from the Pin, is just as good as Paul McBeth's drive/approach that is 35 feet from the pin, because he still makes that putt 95% of the time with these massive pins.

Even if you have a "perfect" basket that could tell you with 100% accuracy that the disc went through a region of space, humans would find a way to complain about it. It is too too high, too low, the region of space is too small, too large, too cylindrical, doesn't account for speed of the shot, etc. etc.

Basketball players develop touch, and spin, on their shots, so that imperfect shots still have a high % of going in. That is part of the skill of shooting. In Disc Golf, the thinking is mostly that touch on your putt is bad. You want arrow straight putts to insure proper height, overcome the wind and hit the chains with force (so a Mach X doesn't shrug it off). Maybe I think putting with touch is more skillful, so why shouldn't that be rewarded? Just like it is in basketball? Good and bad are subjective.

 

[Improbably]

I'm still confused as to why most players feel catching better is a good thing?

 

[Steve West]

So adding tiny chain sets over ball golf holes might revive their fortunes?

Starting in 2019, you can leave the flag stick in. So they will have the pole, at least. I wonder how long it will take before players discover that sloppy too-fast putts will sometimes go in, and then start to complain about flag sticks that kick out their "good" 85 mph putts.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm still confused as to why most players feel catching better is a good thing?

Separate issues: This thread is about getting more consistent results for the same effort. Making putting tougher for Open is another issue.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Starting in 2019, you can leave the flag stick in. So they will have the pole, at least. I wonder how long it will take before players discover that sloppy too-fast putts will sometimes go in, and then start to complain about flag sticks that kick out their "good" 85 mph putts.

"Softer" section of the pole just above the cup or maybe just hitting it will be good enough for rec play?

 

[Broken Shoulder]

This seems like a pretty fair analogy. You can hit the pocket solid in bowling, but the difference in spin,, speed, angle or lift on follow through can leave a dangling chad. If you want a perfect game, maybe you should have to throw the perfect putt every time?

There's also an issue of the pin setters not being entirely accurate. Somewhat of a flukey element there too.

 

[BionicRib]

How about a basket set up using a modification of the kapoosh knife block?

 

[Noill]

wait... what?