American Disc Golf Tour

[Jenga54]

Still it will be a better event than either of the Czech or Estonian events the WDGT is putting on.

Since all 3 are yet to be seen, i'm going to say I'm expecting more from the DGWT broadcasts than the ADGT in production quality.

 

[BraveThrower43]

Frankly I have seen no reason why Salient can not pull off this event. The amount of anti-Salient rhetoric with little to back it up. Sure there have been some that had a bad customer experience but how does that show us their competency to run a tournament?

You have three or four world renown DGer's assisting with the design and the event. That is far more talent and experience than at the Aussie Open but there was little said about that one. As for course design I'd take the proposed course design of Wysocki, Feldberg and Crump any day over Chris Finn's AO design which was essentially a simple wide open huckers course.

Personally I am looking forward to the event. If I was wanting to be critical it would be the lack of coverage for most holes as they are only going to cover 5 holes(?) I believe.

Still it will be a better event than either of the Czech or Estonian events the WDGT is putting on.

What major events or even local events have they successfully run that gives you the confidence that they can easily pull off this one.

I'd have confidence if they had a track record of quality events.....but unfortunately add that experience with what Salient has been the last few years and you don't have much to be confident about

 

[DavidSauls]

Sure there have been some that had a bad customer experience but how does that show us their competency to run a tournament?

How about their competence running previous events?

Or, the competency they've shown on this event, so far?

I agree---they'll pull off something, and might even pull off something very good. I hope they do. But there's been far more fuel in this thread than mere poor customer service with Salient merchandise.

 

[Understable]

They're certainly going to pull something off. They have a venue, film crew, and broadcasting outlet. The event is going to happen.

But if just 20 people show up to play, and a few hundred tune in to watch online, have they really accomplished anything?

They dove into this thing expecting the letters E, S, P, and N would be enough to draw in top level talent and a huge fan base. They were dead wrong.

Their entire focus has been on putting together an event that they feel is most attractive to a broadcast audience, rather than putting that effort into making sure it's an event that's attractive to the players. What they didn't plan for was the fact that no one wants to pay $300 for the chance to be on a webcast buried somewhere deep inside the WatchESPN app.

So yes, Salient is going to pull something off, but is it really going to be what they want?

There are two questions that the event and it's supports should have ready answers to:

1. Why should I play this event?
2. Why should I watch this event?

If you're going to spin it around and say "Why aren't you going to play?" or "Why aren't you going to watch?" then you've already lost. The onus is not on a consumer to turn down a product, it's on the product to sell to the consumer.

You do make some good points however you again are making a lot of assumptions like they are not going to get a turn out. In fact they have more top pros committed than WDGT has for its European stops and a much larger fan base to draw on to watch the events in person (the ADGT event is in the heart of Southern disc golf)

You also claim no one will tune in. Why not watch? What makes the ADGT event less interesting than many other large DG events that are covered? They have the talent playing why wouldn't I want to watch? What makes this event less appealing than others, especially when they are bringing in a truly professional film crew (no offense to Smashboxx and McFly) with high end filming and production that our usual DG media don't have?

They may have announced it is being aired on ESPN3 but since the first few communications that has not been at the forefront of their pitch to DGer's. Yes they are asking people to watch for it to be a success. Do you know who also said the same thing? Jussi and DiscMania. He also asked DGer's to tune into the European Open to help make it a success.

Personally I do see ESPN3 being a great platform for Disc Golf. If we want to get it to a broader audience beyond our core base then ESPN3 will have a larger success rate than an unknown Smashboxx or McFly Youtube channel that is only really known to its core viewership.

 

[Understable]

How about their competence running previous events?

Or, the competency they've shown on this event, so far?

I agree---they'll pull off something, and might even pull off something very good. I hope they do. But there's been far more fuel in this thread than mere poor customer service with Salient merchandise.

So what dg events have they screwed up in the past? They have a VERY experienced crew of veteran DGer's behind them to help out. I seriously doubt they will screw it up.

 

[bradharris]

You do make some good points however you again are making a lot of assumptions like they are not going to get a turn out. In fact they have more top pros committed than WDGT has for its European stops and a much larger fan base to draw on to watch the events in person (the ADGT event is in the heart of Southern disc golf)

I don't care how the compare to the other tours. It's not a direct competition for my attention. The success of the ADGT isn't dependent on being better than the other guys, it's dependent on putting together a product that thousands of people will want to watch.

You also claim no one will tune in. Why not watch? What makes the ADGT event less interesting than many other large DG events that are covered? They have the talent playing why wouldn't I want to watch? What makes this event less appealing than others, especially when they are bringing in a truly professional film crew (no offense to Smashboxx and McFly) with high end filming and production that our usual DG media don't have?

Why should I watch? That's the question that needs to be answered. As I said before, if you're asking viewers to give reasons not to watch, then you've already lost. I don't need a reason not to watch, you need to give me a reason to watch.

Again, it doesn't matter how this event compares to the others. it's already been established that to "make it big" this event needs to have viewership well above anything we've seen in disc golf before. So the question is how are you going to bring in new viewers rather than how to convince people to watch this event rather than others.

They may have announced it is being aired on ESPN3 but since the first few communications that has not been at the forefront of their pitch to DGer's. Yes they are asking people to watch for it to be a success. Do you know who also said the same thing? Jussi and DiscMania. He also asked DGer's to tune into the European Open to help make it a success.

Then what is the pitch? Again, answer the question: Why should a top player sign up?

Personally I do see ESPN3 being a great platform for Disc Golf. If we want to get it to a broader audience beyond our core base then ESPN3 will have a larger success rate than an unknown Smashboxx or McFly Youtube channel that is only really known to its core viewership.

The ESPN3 broadcast also will only be known to Disc Golf's core viewership. Nobody just browses through the ESPN3 listing to find some obscure event to watch. They only go there to find a specific event they already know about.

 

[Pbmercil]

So what dg events have they screwed up in the past? They have a VERY experienced crew of veteran DGer's behind them to help out. I seriously doubt they will screw it up.

Their last event was a C tier that no one showed up to. Zero players

 

[Pbmercil]

What makes this event less appealing than others, especially when they are bringing in a truly professional film crew (no offense to Smashboxx and McFly) with high end filming and production that our usual DG media don't have?

I'm not sure why you're assuming they will have a higher quality production then the experienced DG media film crews currently in use. I'm sure it will be a better live stream quality from infrastructure alone. But that doesn't mean a random production company has the skills to film disc golf well.

 

[Jenga54]

So what dg events have they screwed up in the past? They have a VERY experienced crew of veteran DGer's behind them to help out. I seriously doubt they will screw it up.

Their last event was a C tier that no one showed up to. Zero players

Boy we're starting to go round in circles, people coming and going, spinning and spinning same questions :gross:

 

[Pbmercil]

You have three or four world renown DGer's assisting with the design and the event. That is far more talent and experience than at the Aussie Open but there was little said about that one. As for course design I'd take the proposed course design of Wysocki, Feldberg and Crump any day over Chris Finn's AO design which was essentially a simple wide open huckers course

3 or 4 renowned disc golf players is not the same thing as a proven course designer or TD. There skill at disc golfing has no relation to their skill as course designers or tournament organizers. Its also a huge leap to say they are going to be highly involved. They went to the property once.

Also, I thought the Aussie open course was great.

 

[DiscLoser1]

You do make some good points however you again are making a lot of assumptions like they are not going to get a turn out. In fact they have more top pros committed than WDGT has for its European stops and a much larger fan base to draw on to watch the events in person (the ADGT event is in the heart of Southern disc golf)

You also claim no one will tune in. Why not watch? What makes the ADGT event less interesting than many other large DG events that are covered? They have the talent playing why wouldn't I want to watch? What makes this event less appealing than others, especially when they are bringing in a truly professional film crew (no offense to Smashboxx and McFly) with high end filming and production that our usual DG media don't have?

They may have announced it is being aired on ESPN3 but since the first few communications that has not been at the forefront of their pitch to DGer's. Yes they are asking people to watch for it to be a success. Do you know who also said the same thing? Jussi and DiscMania. He also asked DGer's to tune into the European Open to help make it a success.

Personally I do see ESPN3 being a great platform for Disc Golf. If we want to get it to a broader audience beyond our core base then ESPN3 will have a larger success rate than an unknown Smashboxx or McFly Youtube channel that is only really known to its core viewership.

Delete. Who cares??

 

[AndyJB]

They have *some* of the talent...not all. Where's the ladies? Where is Lizotte, McBeth and other exciting players?

 

[AndyJB]

Although anyone who thinks Nikko Locastro isnt exciting to watch needs to check their pulse.

 

[heartman]

Understable = Kilgus' alt account

 

[AndyJB]

Understable = Kilgus' alt account

He is far too calm, intelligent, well written and logical to be Chris Kilgus.

 

[JC17393]

You have three or four world renown DGer's assisting with the design and the event. That is far more talent and experience than at the Aussie Open but there was little said about that one. As for course design I'd take the proposed course design of Wysocki, Feldberg and Crump any day over Chris Finn's AO design which was essentially a simple wide open huckers course.

I have very little confidence that Wysocki/Feldberg/Crump can create a compelling design on a ball golf course that isn't the same type of "wide open huckers course" that the Australian Open's design on a ball golf course was. Not that I doubt their abilities (never played anything they designed), but "wide open hucker course" is kind of an inherent result when you're installing a temp course on a ball golf course (heck, a temp course just about anywhere). I have my doubts that Cobblestone, a well renowned ball golf course, is going to give them free reign to put tees and baskets where ever they want or to cut/limb trees as they see fit. Also have doubts that they're going to be able to set up the course weeks in advance and allow "test" rounds to be able to tweak and adjust unforeseen design issues.

And before I get accused of being anti-Salient or hell bent on bringing this particular event down, everything I've just typed above applies to ANY disc golf course put on a ball golf course. It applies to the St Judes event last year (and this year), just to name another example. I have yet to play a disc golf course on an active ball golf property that wasn't essentially a "wide open hucker" course, even the permanent installations.

That's not even taking into account that one of the main reasons they're doing the event on a golf course, which they've admitted, is for the benefit of the TV coverage. Wide open fairways = easier to film. That was in part the philosophy behind the design in Australia too (Jussi was involved there and that's something he preaches). The TV coverage is their excuse/reason for a lot of what they're doing with this "tour". New rules and tech standards predicated on being "better" for the television coverage.

Honestly though, I think the so-called involvement of high profile names like Ricky, Barry, and Dave in the execution of the event is overblown. Are they giving advice and having input in the course design? Sure, that's believable. Are they or will they be involved with the actual running of the event beyond whatever input they might have in the design? Very very doubtful. When they roll into town for this event, they're going to be players, not staff. I don't expect them to, nor should they be expected to lift a finger to run check in or stuff player packs or count scorecards or anything like that. The success or failure of the event will not hinge on anything they do other than playing well and putting on a good show in that respect.

 

[Jimb]

I know it's my own fault for continuing to read this thread... :doh:

But I'll sure be glad when this is over.

And I wish that I knew how to copy and paste this comment easily on my phone and into the perfect hyzer/anhyzer thread, too. :wall:

 

[Jenga54]

He is far too calm, intelligent, well written and logical to be Chris Kilgus.

Dr. Kilgus

 

[mark996]

Dr. Kilgus

Beat me to it. Ha-ha.

 

[tbr75]

They dove into this thing expecting the letters E, S, P, and N would be enough to draw in top level talent and a huge fan base. They were dead wrong.