[Innova] anything other than the "roc"

[Casey 1988]

They wanted 30 different ways to be better than a Wasp. Who would throw one of those things?

My Dad throws Wasps as the disc feels better in the hand. He can't throw ROC's due to the sharper shape of the under wing part and the ROC being a big bead. That and Wasp has always been a slightly domed disc and the ROC no, they came at the time in Flat to slightly domed and you had to look for the disc you wanted at a store that sold them.

 

[Grippenripp]

One thing about Innova is that they experiment, try new things, and put things out there for us to use. Maybe the Roc3 was made because Paul McBeth likes flat discs (he also uses the Mako3, Teebird3, etc.), but it's a good disc and many others like it. They also try different plastics, sometimes for better, sometimes not. Yes, they do it to sell discs, and that's the point of any business, but their discs make our DG play better or inspire others to make good discs for us to use. :thmbup:

I'll agree with you on this one, but it isn't just Innova that gives us amazing discs to play with and inspire. I'm going to stay buzz loyal here and also agree that they do not sell enough wasps, knee thing I think is kinda sad is newer players being overwhelmed with Innova, they're the biggest and they push it too. Anyway we've all got our thing right? Wasp for life!!

 

[Lurp Nuts]

i threw today with a friend who threw "rocs" but didnt have a regular roc in the bag. they were all variations of the roc.

now compare it to its counterpart the "wasp". there are no variations. sure the buzzz is beadless but if you stamp different un-relateable names on the wasp and buzz you would have never guessed they were the same (roc vs shark).

if innova roc was so "good" to begin with why did they make all these variations of the roc?

You ok man? Little salty today.

The Roc is debatably the greatest midrange ever made, and Dave Dunipace will retire comfortably on the profits from Roc sales. Just as is should be.

 

[swhite]

Yeah, I think Innova keeps making other variations of the Roc because they realize that it keeps losing market share to the ever increasing list of midranges on the market. You can keep saying that the Roc is the best, but people are buying other molds also.

Innova isn't stupid. They know that no mold will be around forever. They need to develop other molds to replace it. So, they will continue to ride the Roc name while they can, but they are fully committed to finding that new mold that will sell when the Roc no longer does.

 

[Grippenripp]

Yeah, I think Innova keeps making other variations of the Roc because they realize that it keeps losing market share to the ever increasing list of midranges on the market. You can keep saying that the Roc is the best, but people are buying other molds also.

Innova isn't stupid. They know that no mold will be around forever. They need to develop other molds to replace it. So, they will continue to ride the Roc name while they can, but they are fully committed to finding that new mold that will sell when the Roc no longer does.

I'm not sure I completely agree with this because the Buzzz Will be a around forever. Long live the Buzzz!!

 

[Keller]

Well, I would trow a Wasp if it came in something other than "Z". I can't get a good grip on it. So why doesn't Discraft give more Wasp plastic options?

So I throw Rocs. Simple DX and KC Rancho Rocs and that's how I like it. No 3s, X3s, flat luster blah blah, USDGC or metal-flake.
I bag 2 Rocs and 2 Comets, I like my mids with a bead and some dome.

 

[Grippenripp]

Well, I would trow a Wasp if it came in something other than "Z". I can't get a good grip on it. So why doesn't Discraft give more Wasp plastic options?

So I throw Rocs. Simple DX and KC Rancho Rocs and that's how I like it. No 3s, X3s, flat luster blah blah, USDGC or metal-flake.
I bag 2 Rocs and 2 Comets, I like my mids with a bead and some dome.

I percent agree with you on this, I can grip z with no problem, however I know many people who can't or just don't like it, honestly I wish Discraft gave us more options with the wasp x, esp would be fan flipping tastic it's funny you post this because I just found out the other day that z and Ti are the only plastics that the wasp comes in though, I did see pics of esp wasps so maybe there's hope for esp and x wasps one day that would be a game changer for sure.

 

[roggenb3]

The Roc is debatably the greatest midrange ever made...

Any midrange is debatably the greatest midrange ever made.

 

[TKWolverine]

I'd like to "third" this idea. Personally, I really dislike the grip of Z plastic, and I think that Discraft is foolish for not producing the Wasp in X or ESP plastic.

 

[Quinntastic]

anything other than the "roc"

Wasp is around so Discraft throwers have a Roc of their own. I find I like all the variations simply because I can tweak things on a minor level. At some point when you find the type of flight that works, no need to make drastic changes. I need more beef step to MF Roc3 or if I need a neutral to understable beat in a DX. Same concept people use with a buzz or buzzOS ect. Just cause it's a company you don't frequent doesn't mean you need to kid yourself that it's that confusing. Its all the same game anyway you slice it.

Also amusing that people throw one disc of one mold in one plastic and act like they can't throw that mold ever again. Bad disc come it all manufacturers, just cause yours sucked doesn't mean they all do...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[casinnova]

I have many rocs and roc variants. I'm a little lost on the point of the OP. I've settled on bagging the VRoc because I really like the way the rim feels and it doesn't fade as hard as a regular roc. I also have a wombat3 and it's a ****ty disc.

I hate beads for forehand shots so I stopped bagging the RocX3 even though it's a pretty nice OS mid. I replaced it with a combination of a Drone and MD4. I'd like to get a mortar but they are in such low supply.

Many discs are good and many discs have variants and various plastics and weights etc..... So.........

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Innova has always confused me. I personally take a wasp over a rock any day and even though the Buzzz is just a re-tooled wasp it's not the "same" disc. I'm sure each roc has it's own characteristics, but personally I appreciate the straight forward approach. Also with my buzzzes and mybwaspni can achieve all the shots I need just like an Innova fan with their roc, beat roc, roc 3 mid line up. Innova makes things for money but Discraft could have called the Buzzz SS something different but the Buzzz sells so it is about $ that's what a business is and there's always going to be that side of it.

*States dislike for Innova and claims they are confusing*
*Pens detailed analysis of how Discraft does the exact same thing*

 

[Grippenripp]

*States dislike for Innova and claims they are confusing*
*Pens detailed analysis of how Discraft does the exact same thing*

Sort of, what I was getting at here was that the Buzzz and wasp are different disc entirely in my opinion not just Frankenstein version of the same exact disc. I guess you're kind of right here though.

 

[zontar]

I'm currently bagging a 175 roc, 180 roc and 180 vroc. rocs are wonderful. all variants are magical. if you don't believe it you are a horrible person. YMMV

 

[Streets]

Dave D has made so many variants of the Roc over the years that he's now parodying the Roc with the Vroc. What a joke.

 

[TurnBurn]

I didn't notice any conspiracy thread on this forum, but the "3" discs (even the original ones that were released years ago) were all quietly approved by the PDGA in August-September of last year.

I guess all the iterations were getting out of hand, so somebody did something to address it.


BTW, I love my "3" type discs so I'm not hating here.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

"Innova has too many discs and tweaks too many things."
"Discraft cares more about Ultimate and doesn't do enough on the disc golf side."
"Manufacturers only care about money"


The only truth in any of these conversations is that you're never going to make disc golfers happy and they will always complain about something.

 

[SD86]

Dave D has made so many variants of the Roc over the years that he's now parodying the Roc with the Vroc. What a joke.

The VRoc is not a bad disc. I like the smooth fade my Champ VRoc has. Roc "purists" may not like it, but it works for some. And as Shakespeare says, "what's in a name"..

 

[Casey 1988]

I'd like to "third" this idea. Personally, I really dislike the grip of Z plastic, and I think that Discraft is foolish for not producing the Wasp in X or ESP plastic.

They did make the Wasp in Pro D at one point as well as a limited edition Elite X in the mid 2000's, Have one and it was a good disc in flight it is just I had issues with the disc mentioned below. I just found the Wasp itself is too overstable for me when new. A ROC is better but has a sharper wing and the bead is more obvious. I have a Elite Z or now Z plastic disc and a Elite X. the Elite X had to be made lighter to fit in the weight range so it beats in quicker then even the old Pro D plastic. Personally I do not mind the newer Z plastic, not bad but the Wasp is not the best disc to make in that plastic type as the disc is more overstable in the Z or the older Elite Z plastic. Both Z and Elite Z are nearly the same thing if not the same. But Z or later Elite z are not the same as the old Elite Z when it first came out.

 

[Hampstead]

Sort of, what I was getting at here was that the Buzzz and wasp are different disc entirely in my opinion not just Frankenstein version of the same exact disc. I guess you're kind of right here though.

Well, Jim Kenner has said he made the Wasp, Hornet and Buzzz to replicate the three stages of wear of a KC Pro Roc. So there's that.