Backhand Distance Progression Instructional Video Idea Thread

[Mike C]

Hey guys, a few years ago I worked on some instructional videos. My backhand distance tips video proved to be a popular one, but I know I can make one that is much better. Here is the old one:



Some ideas I already have:

- Film in 16:9 HD

- Record the audio somewhere without wind, e.g. narrate over the video if need be.

- Film players of various skill levels to show examples of how different power levels look, such as giving some random person off the street a Quasar to throw, filming a newer player who maxes around 200-250, filming an intermediate player who throws 300-330', film me throwing 500', film any willing pros throwing 600' etc., then point out the differences in mechanics responsible for this.

- Show video in slow motion of specific mechanical changes players can make. For example clearly show how a throw looks with and without lower body rotation.

- Spend more time discussing how to pick good max D discs and lines (That are practical for an actual course mind you).


I have other ideas but I want to hear from all of you. I really want to make the best video I can with the subject. There are a lot of random clips out there with good pointers, but I'm imagining something more robust and complete, something that will provide good reference points for breaking through distance plateaus.

 

[BirdieMachine]

I enjoy your videos, they are made really well. Keep up the great work!

I would like to hear what long throwers focus on when throwing far. What are you trying to do during your throw?

 

[The Hammer]

I enjoy your videos, they are made really well. Keep up the great work!

I would like to hear what long throwers focus on when throwing far. What are you trying to do during your throw?

The only thing I focus on is release angle and my target height. The rest just kinda happens.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

A little bit of film school 101 will really make a big difference in the quality of a video series.

Wind is very easy to deal with if you're recording audio with an off-camera mic. A lavalier microphone can make a world of difference in your audio quality (wind screens are inexpensive and great) because you stick it on the subject and you hear the subject.

If you're doing some talking head stuff (interviews, introductions, etc) find a nice place to setup your camera - and get the light worked out. Sitting in direct sunlight is rough as you get super bright face and super dark face. You can just as easily setup in the shade and get a nice balanced shot. Try shooting the conversation with 2 cameras so that you have a master shot of the person - and then somebody focused in closer.

Try shooting from above the thrower with a ladder so that the audience can get a good view of the pull through.

Script it out in advance so that you have time to edit the script and make sure it all makes sense. I'm not saying you did this, but the most common rookie mistake is to try to wing it - then ramble on - uhhhh, ahhhhh, and oh yeah, this too! You can easily avoid this by scripting out what you want to say before you get in front of a camera.

I would say that if you're looking to actually improve the audience's skills - demonstrate the drills they should do - and as you mentioned, use multiple skill levels to demonstrate and correct their form if they're not doing the drills correctly. If I can drive 400' already, it would help me to see somebody who can drive 400' being analyzed - I love that idea.

Practice being in front of a camera. You practice disc golf... and it only makes sense that you should practice being comfortable, confident and smooth on camera. It's a skill, and one that you develop just like in dg. Speaking to somebody in an interview format is different from in conversation.

Consider yourself an aspiring film maker. Watch your favorite documentaries, interviews, etc and try to emulate them.

Good luck, I already am a subscriber - I look forward to seeing what you can come up with and feel free to holler if you have any specific questions.

 

[Mike C]

@birdiemachine

What Hammer said.

It's like writing. You're thinking about what you want to write, not how to hold your pencil.

After throwing a disc enough, your muscles know what to do to make it hit a given line, so I just envision the throw and have in the back of my head what I need to do to make it happen.

 

[teemkey]

Mike: all your ideas are good.

My suggestion would be to try remembering the attitudes & ideas you had when you were a beginner. Otherwise good teachers forget that a newbie does not know the meaning of "hit" because they've never felt it. It might help to do a few one-on-one instructional sessions with people from your target demographic to work out the level of technical vocabulary to uses in your narration.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Great job. Looking forward to the newer version.

You sure make it look easy. I think I definitely still need to learn how to get my hips into my drive better for more distance.

Anyways, if you want to compare what a total newb throws like. Here is me a couple months in to learning DG:



Here is me in June, doing a bit better, around 300 feet now:



I'm getting better at keeping my hips in front, until the pull, but I loose accuracy, and haven't had time for field work to improve that in a while.

 

[bhadella]

I'd suggest having someone who has 400' power as an interim step.

newb (<150) > rec (200-250) > int (300-350) > adv (350-450) > open (400-huge) > World Class (Worlds Distance Comp guys)

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

My second youtube up above failed for some reason and I'm too late to edit it (WTF is my boss talking to me about when I'm trying to post on a forum here )

 

[iacas]

- Film players of various skill levels to show examples of how different power levels look, such as giving some random person off the street a Quasar to throw, filming a newer player who maxes around 200-250, filming an intermediate player who throws 300-330', film me throwing 500', film any willing pros throwing 600' etc., then point out the differences in mechanics responsible for this.

One small problem with that, and an exaggeration to make my point: a 70-year-old could perfectly replicate Wiggins or Gurthie's mechanics, but the simple speed at which they throw would be responsible for the difference.

Show video in slow motion of specific mechanical changes players can make. For example clearly show how a throw looks with and without lower body rotation.

I'd caution you to first worry about helping people prioritize. It's one of the worst things in golf instruction, and one of the things I think we do best (in my job as a golf instructor) - prioritize.

There are lots of people who can tell you the 17 things they do "wrong" in a golf swing. What they are bad at is:

a) Putting those things into a properly prioritized list.
b) Knowing how to work on those priorities.

The issue of prioritization becomes even more complex when you consider that many of the "flaws" are actually just compensations for an earlier flaw. For example, a golfer might have a flaw later in the swing that causes him to slice, but without that "flaw" compensating for an earlier flaw, they'd miss the golf ball entirely.

In a lot of ways that can make for an easier building of videos - it allows you to break things down into segments. The trick then becomes helping the player accomplish those two things:

a) Getting them to choose a proper priority
b) Getting them the proper drills and things to improve that priority

It's further complicated by the fact that there's no real "one way" to throw - there is a narrow range, but still, it's a range. Some players have higher pull lines, different grips, use their hips differently, have a hop instead of a true x-step, look at the target before the hit or never look at the target until afterwards. For example you bend your arm in your reach-back, others do not.

Separating what's a true commonality from the "unique quirky stuff" is important.

One last thing that's important: feels aren't real, and though we use feels all the time in teaching golfers, they're generally not great in more than a one-on-one setting where you can get feedback about whether that "feel" works for that person or not. Sometimes people have what seems like totally OPPOSITE feels for the SAME thing. It's weird, but true. Other times - more commonly - their feels are simply not quite what's going on. They feel like their hands are in one spot when they're not, or their weight is somewhere it's not, or something like that.

Oh, and if I didn't quote it, I probably agreed, and didn't have much to say about it.

I sent you a text, too, Mike. Good luck.

 

[Jouni]

MikeC, all your ideas sound great, and I really like the idea of multiple skill levels. Many videos online contain useful things, but often I feel that there are some many issues that I am missing in order to throw lets say 400', that it gets overwhelming. By pointing the differences in the different skill levels it might be easier to see what are the important "next steps" in progressing, instead of trying to correct everything at once.

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

I'd like to see you working with individuals specifically and see them get some results. See when you do "x" then "y" happens. Kind of a tall order, but...

 

[DavidInIowa]

This sounds awesome

 

[justinf67]

Biggest thing I'd like to hear about is how you developed the amount of snap you have. You can tell from your throws, you fully hit it. You have major snap, and most do not. Also, maybe emphasize elbow extension, as I tend to have problems with getting the elbow extended before I pull

 

[Sammish]

Mike,

Love your videos by the way.

There have been some good suggestions posted in this forum. I do concur with justinf67's requests on snap. That is the biggest question from newbies like myself that is explained and shown in diagrams and side views.

However, I would propose that an overhead shot of the throw would do the most good for players looking to develop their distance throws. There is a great video of Avery Jenkins throwing with the camera looking down at him; I believe it is a Discmania video. I learned more in a shorter amount of time from that video than anything else I have looked at.

I would really like more views from above of other players. Seeing different players arms pulling through and snapping the disc out from overhead would bring a whole new pool of data for players to work with. I don't know how hard it would be to get other pros to film with, that would be the best pool of data. Even if you had several people with the ability to throw the 400' shots that would be enough. Not everyone is built the same or has the same throwing motion, so having various throws to view would be the optimum in helpfulness. Just a thought.

Thanks for considering our input and keep up the great videos. Your throws are very cool to watch, I would like to be able to get close to those distances with drivers.

 

[JTdisc]

I really like the idea of different people of different power levels throwing, especially if you can illustrate the differences in how they throw.

 

[drblam]

Do it!

I am doing NaNoWriMo, so I have to write Heavyweight Champion of the Underworld in the next 30 days.

You should do NaDGDriMo where you get this video finished before december!

Sir, I challenge thee!

 

[bfowler]

Compare and contrast.

Will S. has a how to throw video out there and he does a lot of showing the wrong way to do it and the right way to do it. That has helped me a lot but I would love for someone to go into more detail.

I also love the idea of your teaching someone how to throw. There a great chance that many of the problems your student would have most of us have.

I'd also lay out a plan for what people should work on in a A,B,C type deal. First the first week do exercise A. This will help you feel, learn X. Then, for the second week do exercise B. This will help you feel Y. And so forth.

People need a path and instructions to follow. I find I'm all over the place. There are dozens of things to get right and I'll get one right and forget to do the last one I learned. It's hard to put them all together.

I just threw over 350 for the first time last week in a field. I could do it repeatedly. This week I can't do it anymore and I'm struggling trying to figure out want I was doing then that I'm not doing now.

A checklist of important things to look for during a drive would be great to. Kind of like a cheat sheet to refer to to refresh your memory if things aren't working.

 

[A rod]

A checklist of important things to look for during a drive would be great to. Kind of like a cheat sheet to refer to to refresh your memory if things aren't working.

I agree and disagree with this. As you're working through building your drive form some things dont click until you have other pieces in place. I can watch through wills videos or the beto driving vid every couple months and think "oh damn, I know to do that, but I have been slacking on that lately".

The other thing is as your drive reaches consistency phases you can self diagnose your own form without video just based on what the disc does.

Ie. I was working on the elbow coming forward before the hip whip, and had a great day of 400-420' shots, the next day I was turning half of my shots over, not from oat but rather having my forward shoulder higher than my rear shoulder, and essentially everything was coming out anny. I had picked up some bad habit while shifting my weight forward to bring up my front shoulder. I just had to think of the possible fixes; rolling wrist, swing plane, torso position etc and was able to narrow it down to front shoulder raising. I then focused on keeping the front shoulder dropped for hyzers and flat shots and boom no more unintentional annys.

I'm saying that the check list of all the things are already out there and easy to find but if you as a thrower dont know what you're doing right and wrong, and just adding things because its "correct technique" isn't going to help the player. Like if you always go to 100% speed as fast as possible from reach back it doesn't really matter when you shift your weight or spin on your heel.

 

[Noahlearner]

Hi Mike, I love watching your videos. I am often wishing however that I can see more of your body in approach, run up and at hit. It seems like you usually frame shot so we can see from waistish up and only when disc is all the way back of your pull, I want to see slow mo of your whole run up and what you are doing with all your body so I can see how your hips are leading etc,my 2 cents