Backhand questions/misconceptions

[dckagel]

Hey folks, I had some questions about what I should be feeling during the backhand throw as I think I've had some misconceptions as I've gone about my form journey. Curious to see what you guys think and to start some conversation.

Primarily, I'm confused about the plant/brace, and shifting my weight into it. When I first started working on my plant, I would basically load myself over my front leg and push down into the ground on it hard. Doing it this way, there's almost no power added to the throw from my back leg/hip. However, when I try to feel the power coming from the back side more, I feel like I lose the brace in the first place. My question is basically: what am I supposed to feel/do in my plant leg when powering from the back side?

Another question is the timing of the upper body with this. As I rotate and start to release the disc, I feel like it happens to late, or that my body as already opened up and used the power before the disc has left my hand. Do you guys have any tips or drills to work on this?

Anyway, just some things I've been thinking about and can't figure out the answers to.

 

[RocHucker]

I won't claim to be an expert by any stretch. I've been trying to break the 400ft barrier for years. However, I've recently shifted my conception of the brace leg and the weight transfer/hips, and I feel like it may go somewhere. I've felt that way about other "breakthroughs" before which turned out to be dead ends, but we'll see where this one goes. For the first time I actually feel a way to turn my backside momentum into rotation. Maybe it's a piece of the puzzle... if you try it out, let me know how it goes!

In short, I really think that you don't want to load "over" the front leg as you describe, nor "push down" on it. If you want to rotate in the horizontal plane, then your hips need to be *behind* the brace leg, not over it, and the brace leg needs to be angled so that it can push horizontally to a degree.

For a longer writeup, see my post here:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134329&page=38

Good luck to both of us on our form journeys.

 

[Brychanus]

Hey folks, I had some questions about what I should be feeling during the backhand throw as I think I've had some misconceptions as I've gone about my form journey. Curious to see what you guys think and to start some conversation.

Primarily, I'm confused about the plant/brace, and shifting my weight into it.

I've recently gotten more concerned about all of the focus on the plant/brace since it kind of isolates the idea from how you should get into it. It's a dynamic mechanism & posture - you transiently, and very briefly swing while braced. So doing the dynamics improperly means you won't brace & swing well.

When I first started working on my plant, I would basically load myself over my front leg and push down into the ground on it hard.

I'd have to see video, but your phrasing makes it sound like you may be overcooking the "loading" and "pushing" in a One Leg Drill like a slow, high-effort action like a barbell squat. It should be more like a smooth and quick weight shift/drop/leg compression/pump that leads the swing that can be practiced in a One Leg Drill.

Doing it this way, there's almost no power added to the throw from my back leg/hip. However, when I try to feel the power coming from the back side more, I feel like I lose the brace in the first place. My question is basically: what am I supposed to feel/do in my plant leg when powering from the back side?

Could be lots of things. In the drive phase ("powering from the back side"), you should feel coiled up (see Inside Swing) like the backswing is leveraged against the rear/drive foot (a rear brace) that transitions into weight shift on the front/plant foot (into the front brace). Shifting from high in the drive phase into the plant doing Hershyzer drills is what you want. Just like walking, one leg is doing the work in a smooth but quick transition to the other one. You may need to exaggerate the postures and strides a bit to find the ideal ones.

Another question is the timing of the upper body with this. As I rotate and start to release the disc, I feel like it happens to late, or that my body as already opened up and used the power before the disc has left my hand. Do you guys have any tips or drills to work on this?

Anyway, just some things I've been thinking about and can't figure out the answers to.

Could be lots of things again. You might be "shifting from in front" with your leading hip opening out too early. You want to "shift from behind you":


For some reason a lot of people really struggle with that (including me), perhaps because our brains don't like to fall backwards/toward things we can't see. It's like learning to do a trust fall that leads the swing. It can be hard to learn. I personally have had to do hundreds of reps of that Clement drill over 1" or so of shift, and now I am working to land more consistently in Hershyzer position when Shifting from Behind to get into better posture to lead the swing. A good weight shift will help you keep the shoulder closed & get your center of gravity and leverage from the ground powering your throws.

Video form review is really the only way to individualize this stuff, but these are some of the trends you may struggle with and that we commonly see out there.

 

[Surly Bastage]

My weight shift needs improvement as well.

This Michael Strauss lesson with a pressure board is interesting.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CWpQH3pAy7Q/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Has anyone tried working with one?

Ii search but could s there a way to embed

 

[RocHucker]

I don't know anything about this Michael Strauss guy, but the pressure board strikes me as a very informative and elegant training tool. Should pretty clearly reveal problems with weight shift timing.
Does anyone know if this Strauss guy knows his stuff? Can he throw 450ft+, or is he one of the many social media instructors who has a slick presentation but sub-400ft mechanics?
Barring knowledge about Strauss, do any 450ft+ throwers agree with what he's saying about the weight shift happening concurrently with the hip rotation, and the effective hip range of motion only needing to be about 45 degrees back to 45 degrees forward?

 

[sidewinder22]

I disagree with what he is teaching with the pressure board.

The front leg is not a kickstand, it is the wheel/hub of the bike, the rear foot is the kickstand - counter balance.

You should get a similar feeling of the pressure board with the Elephant Walk Drill, Riding the Bull, Swivel Stairs, Throwing from downhill lie(Slash Thru), or Double Crush the Can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvDvsTu3t5o#t=5m

 

[Surly Bastage]

Does anyone know if this Strauss guy knows his stuff?

I believe he is Paul Ulibarri's coach, so I hope so.

I found him through some of Robbie C's videos.

https://youtu.be/Nk372S1HciU
~2:55
.
https://youtu.be/jNqh_o5bJ84
https://youtu.be/_jbh94-IXTc
https://youtu.be/FQSdCLtWdUg

 

[RocHucker]

I disagree with what he is teaching with the pressure board.

When would you say that the pressure board should shift forward? Clay Ballard (in that ball golf video) says that the pressure board should tilt forward when backswing is not quite completed. Are you saying that that translates pretty directly to disc golf?

 

[RocHucker]

I believe he is Paul Ulibarri's coach, so I hope so.

That is a pretty impressive credential! I'll have to look for more of his videos

 

[sidewinder22]

When would you say that the pressure board should shift forward? Clay Ballard (in that ball golf video) says that the pressure board should tilt forward when backswing is not quite completed. Are you saying that that translates pretty directly to disc golf?

Yes!