[Question] Beat in disc, what's affected?

[Vintervilan]

Fairly new to Discgolf, and I've always wondered what happens with the disc the more beat in it gets? Does it affect the turn, the fade or both?

 

[Snaques]

Guess there are many factors in beating a disc in. One common reasoning is that as the disc hits trees and other stuff, the wing gets slightly bent downwards which in effect reduces the PLH and makes the disc more understable.

Another one is that all the scuffs and scratches increase the drag and reduce the spin, again making the disc more US.

I would also like to understand the mechanics of "beating the fade out" that people are talking about.

 

[TOB3RT]

I had an avenger ss and it wasn't very ss. More like os.
I threw it often and hit many trees. Put it up for a couple of weeks and brought it back out. Now when I throw it it's like I throw it on an anhyzer line every shot no matter what I do. Very little fade.

 

[Travis1010]

Fairly new to Discgolf, and I've always wondered what happens with the disc the more beat in it gets? Does it affect the turn, the fade or both?

It makes the disc more understable, which is to say it increases the turn and reduces the fade typically.

 

[garublador]

In general discs will lose both turn and fade. However, not all discs beat in the same way. Some get squirrley (more turn that's harder to control) and some gradually get a little more turn and keep fading later and later, which makes them longer and longer.

 

[5QU166Y]

Another one is that all the scuffs and scratches increase the drag and reduce the spin, again making the disc more US.

Actually, rougher surfaces have less drag than smooth surfaces. That's why golf balls have dimples instead of being smooth.

 

[kevdiv48]

Used the correct form of affect/effect. I commend your efforts.
For disc wear, both high speed and low speed stabilities decrease with wear. Plastic type, mold type and speed all play into change in flight. Generally, slower discs and discs of higher grade plastic break in slower.

 

[ThinAir]

Actually, rougher surfaces have less drag than smooth surfaces. That's why golf balls have dimples instead of being smooth.

Golf ball yes, wing not necessarily...reference wind tunnel testing of smooth surfaces vs rough. Reverse the dimples on a golf ball so that they're now protrusions evenly distributed on the surface instead of indentations, and drag will go way up.

On a worn disc you're going to have both, missing material and raised material.

 

[Questatement]

Plastic is a factor too.

I have a beat to snot 07 champ Wraith with -1 HSS but it still fades as hard as a brand new Wraith. Very useful when you need it.

All my other (later) champ Wraiths lose LSS at about the same rate as HSS.

 

[Sooner34]

I have wondered this as well. The really interesting thing to me is how differently different molds and plastics wear. The hallowed Innova molds all seem to lose fade first, and then start to flip. My Wizards mimic a Roc cycle to a "t." Discs that start to flip and never lose the fade are so weird to me. Haha. Especially when my Comets would flip from any power throw, but would finish harder than most of Rocs. Was not happy about that... Haha. Comets' out!

 

[Ted Bratton]

The surface texture of the disc, it is extremely important in determining how a disc flies. When a disc is fresh and polished, particularly premium plastic discs, the surface will contact as much air as possible which will slow it down faster producing a bigger wake, resulting in a relatively more overstable flight. When the surfaces of the disc slide along the ground it will abrade the surface similar to sandpaper which gives very worn discs their typical appearance. The abrasion removes some material from the surface causing the surface to contact less air during flight, reducing the wake and the rate at which the disc slows down similar to dimples in a golf ball. Obviously a champion disc starts off much shinier and glossier than a dx disc which already has a relatively rough surface texture, and a dx disc will abrade much much faster especially along the bottom edge of the disc which is key to a loss in stability. This is why people say DX and Pro have more 'glide', they are more understable, which is a huge part of perceived glide. Overstable discs fight to get to the ground, understable discs fight to stay in the air and glide until they lose all of their momentum, But because if they turn too much and lose their height they will require a hyzer release angle to achieve it.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Fade beats out when the surface loses it's smooth finish. Throw Champ and DX discs of the same mold, and you'll notice a later fade on the DX because DX is more pitted.

Also, squishing the rim might make the disc slower? Don't know about that. Just a thought that popped in my head.

 

[ThinAir]

The surface texture of the disc, it is extremely important in determining how a disc flies. When a disc is fresh and polished, particularly premium plastic discs, the surface will contact as much air as possible which will slow it down faster producing a bigger wake, resulting in a relatively more overstable flight. When the surfaces of the disc slide along the ground it will abrade the surface similar to sandpaper which gives very worn discs their typical appearance. The abrasion removes some material from the surface causing the surface to contact less air during flight, reducing the wake and the rate at which the disc slows down similar to dimples in a golf ball. Obviously a champion disc starts off much shinier and glossier than a dx disc which already has a relatively rough surface texture, and a dx disc will abrade much much faster especially along the bottom edge of the disc which is key to a loss in stability. This is why people say DX and Pro have more 'glide', they are more understable, which is a huge part of perceived glide. Overstable discs fight to get to the ground, understable discs fight to stay in the air and glide until they lose all of their momentum, But because if they turn too much and lose their height they will require a hyzer release angle to achieve it.

^^This is good, and very relevant.

 

[PMantle]

I hate brand new Champ/Z drivers.

 

[logjammin]

My complaint about "worn in" discs is that they are unpredictable. I'm not sure if that's really true, or if I am expecting the disc to fly like it did when it was new. And no matter what disc I throw, the flight usually doesn't follow my plans.

 

[ThinAir]

That's why I use premium plastic almost exclusively. Only my putters are base plastic, for approach and putting.

 

[Alexplz]

One way to put an end to all the supposition would be to pick up a few physically identical discs. Throw them all with a robot in an indoor stadium to remove variables associated with human error and wind. Take one and abrase the surface to emulate the roughed-up look and feel of discs that have been well loved and had their flightplates skipped across cement etc. Take the other and throw it against a hard, tree-like surface 20 times or so. Take the other and do both... then see what happens! opcorn: :hfive: ... :|

 

[Snaques]

The surface texture of the disc, it is extremely important in determining how a disc flies. When a disc is fresh and polished, particularly premium plastic discs, the surface will contact as much air as possible which will slow it down faster producing a bigger wake, resulting in a relatively more overstable flight. When the surfaces of the disc slide along the ground it will abrade the surface similar to sandpaper which gives very worn discs their typical appearance. The abrasion removes some material from the surface causing the surface to contact less air during flight, reducing the wake and the rate at which the disc slows down similar to dimples in a golf ball. Obviously a champion disc starts off much shinier and glossier than a dx disc which already has a relatively rough surface texture, and a dx disc will abrade much much faster especially along the bottom edge of the disc which is key to a loss in stability. This is why people say DX and Pro have more 'glide', they are more understable, which is a huge part of perceived glide. Overstable discs fight to get to the ground, understable discs fight to stay in the air and glide until they lose all of their momentum, But because if they turn too much and lose their height they will require a hyzer release angle to achieve it.

Hmmm, sounds like you know what you're talking about so I'm not questioning you. There's just one thing that, to me, doesn't add up.

One of the biggest factors in the disc's flight is the spin. Based on all of the articles I've read the spin stabilizes the flight, basically meaning more HSS and less LSS.

Now if a new disc has more friction with the air like you say, it should reduce the spin as well making the disc less HSS.

 

[Vintervilan]

Wow, I really didn't expect such a number of great responses Thank you guys.

 

[BirdieMachine]

The biggest difference is PLH as discs beat in. The wing gets bent down causing the air going over the top to take longer then the air going underneath which adds lift. You can also wear down the flashing on the bottom also lowering the PLH. See tuning, see PLH.

Take two discs with identical dome and PLH with one rougher then the other and I don't think you see much change at all. I think the roughed up surface is slower. Dimples on a golf ball create a boundary layer and are precisely placed to create a uniform layer. Add scuffs to the golf ball and you lose distance.