Brodie Smith PDGA #128378

[ru4por]

If the PDGA just issued a suggested standard, not that it would impact compliance yet, but with a view that some day in the future, depending on how well/quickly courses were able to comply, it could become a requirement. Then responsible course maintenance and installation would surely start to coalesce around that standard.

Maybe we will just disagree. To set a standard now, that is not required, I don't see how it ever becomes required. There will always be a large number of courses that can and never will be able to be compliant. We take them out of the ground? Refuse to sanction any event or league there? In addition to maintenance of several courses, my club helps support, we now need to start fundraising to put in or replace pads?

I get the concept of standardization, but the practical, pragmatic, logistic application here is not realistic....again, IMO.

 

[jakebake91]

I get the concept of standardization, but the practical, pragmatic, logistic application here is not realistic....again, IMO.

Playing devil's advocate....I agree with everything you've said....but

Could this be done in a more realistic manner as a requirement to host a NT or DGPT event? Basically, fix it just for the pros? Again I understand the costs involved are prohibitive, but is this slightly more practical to ask for?

 

[Ahildy13]

Playing devil's advocate....I agree with everything you've said....but

Could this be done in a more realistic manner as a requirement to host a NT or DGPT event? Basically, fix it just for the pros? Again I understand the costs involved are prohibitive, but is this slightly more practical to ask for?

The real question is "why?"
You only throw 18 tee shots a round. If you threw all birdies at a par 3 course it's still only 50% of your shots being "standardized" at the most.
Golf isn't about your ability to throw the correct shot from the same spot every time, it's about the ability to throw the correct shot when things aren't going your way.

 

[ru4por]

Playing devil's advocate....I agree with everything you've said....but

Could this be done in a more realistic manner as a requirement to host a NT or DGPT event? Basically, fix it just for the pros? Again I understand the costs involved are prohibitive, but is this slightly more practical to ask for?

And it could be argued that these type courses should have upgraded tee pads.

But, that is a pretty big expense for 100 players to throw three shot off of each pad. 300 throws to justify the expense? Not to mention, are those 300 throws enough to dictate pads for the other 362 days of play? In most cases, probably yes. You might lose a couple DGPT events though. I am not sure that Toboggan can have cement or permanent tees, due to park restrictions on the land.

Yes, this is a much more reasonable ask though. The DGPT setting standards, for bids, seems reasonable. I assume the PDGA has basic thresholds, that would have to be met, for Worlds.

 

[dehaas]

Stuff like this is where he shows his n00b side.

In most instances relationships with the city, parks department, whoever needs to be massaged pretty good for things to happen. You might have a good relationship but have to fund projects on your own, others might be lucky and the entity is on board with budgeting money to their courses, and others might he simply fighting uphill to keep the course in the ground. On top of all that the process for getting changes made will vary greatly from place to place.

Somebody who has been involved on the local level knows this. In theory standardization is a great idea, pretty much impossible to implement. The trade off might be certain courses where for whatever reason they can't upgrade to the new standard and get dropped from DGPT and you're adding other courses that might not be as great but have the required amenities.

In reality statements like that are taking a giant dump on the people who grind it out to have what they do.

I think the only way to come remotely close to standardizing tees for DGPT events would be to use a portable wooden platform with a turf surface. You'd essentially lug those around with all the other DGPT equipment. You'd have to position them slightly different than the permanent ones obviously.

 

[BillFleming]

I think having a minimum length and width (and flatness or limited construction materials/methods?) for all teedpads is a good idea, perhaps even a mandated safe follow-through pad extension would be good, but I don't agree with some of the vague ideas mentioned on Showmez Ep2 where they were mentioning a 20' pad or having the pad be always free of any branches etc.
I watched Brodie's video but I couldn't quite grasp what the suggestion was, was it that the pad always extends a certain width?
I do feel like it's not a bad time for the PDGA to start talking about some standardisation for teepads with the plan that it comes into play in a few year's time. Teepads need repair/replacement/repositioning from time to time so giving time for courses that want to host the bigger tournaments time to comply with some clear guidelines seems like a good step forward.

The more important take from Showmez Season 2 Episode 2 isn't about the length of the tee pad (although that is important)...Uli was talking about James Conrad (guest) at one course where the end of the tee pad had a 5 foot or so drop off. James made his run up and vanished off the edge...they were so worried about him that they didn't see his disc almost go in. Spoiler, he wasn't hurt.

I think disc golf needs some rules for the tee pads just to keep players from injury. Yes, you can start further back so your follow through isn't off the end of the tee pad....but having a safe follow through area would be much wiser.

 

[R-Ogre]

The more important take from Showmez Season 2 Episode 2 isn't about the length of the tee pad (although that is important)...Uli was talking about James Conrad (guest) at one course where the end of the tee pad had a 5 foot or so drop off. James made his run up and vanished off the edge...they were so worried about him that they didn't see his disc almost go in. Spoiler, he wasn't hurt.

I think disc golf needs some rules for the tee pads just to keep players from injury. Yes, you can start further back so your follow through isn't off the end of the tee pad....but having a safe follow through area would be much wiser.

Or just do like the rest of us and throw a standstill if you're worried about getting hurt bc of teepad conditions.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Is there no official recommended tee size/shape for tournament play? Just having official guidance would be a good place to start.

 

[Dcinmd]

I think disc golf needs some rules for the tee pads just to keep players from injury. Yes, you can start further back so your follow through isn't off the end of the tee pad....but having a safe follow through area would be much wiser.

I do believe the rule is called common sense.

 

[ru4por]

Or just do like the rest of us and throw a standstill if you're worried about getting hurt bc of teepad conditions.

I swear, I will never understand running off the end of the pad. I see it all the time. Why the heck don't you start and plan your run up, to end a foot of so before the end of the pad. Is the extra foot a make or break distance? I am not talking about guys with Conrad run ups, they just try to plan the end of their throw at the end of the pad. :doh:

 

[BillFleming]

I do believe the rule is called common sense.

Unfortunately, common sense doesn't apply in lawsuits. I foresee the day when someone hurts themselves on a tee pad and sues the course and/or the tournament sponsor.

Then we will see rules covering tee pads. Just like we have other rules in the non-disc golf world where common sense was ignored (remember the spilt McDonald's coffee and the lawsuit from that. Now cups have to say the contents may be hot).

 

[Jay Dub]

Unfortunately, common sense doesn't apply in lawsuits. I foresee the day when someone hurts themselves on a tee pad and sues the course and/or the tournament sponsor.

Then we will see rules covering tee pads. Just like we have other rules in the non-disc golf world where common sense was ignored (remember the spilt McDonald's coffee and the lawsuit from that. Now cups have to say the contents may be hot).

You run up on a tee pad you take all responsibility. Someone might try to sue but that would never work, imo.

 

[BillFleming]

You run up on a tee pad you take all responsibility. Someone might try to sue but that would never work, imo.

You buy a cup of hot coffee, you take all responsibility - or should - but the lawsuit was created and won.

You have a hair dryer and bathtub, you take all responsibility, but there is a safety warning to not use a hair dryer in the bathtub...

Lots of common sense things that ended up being done anyways, leading to a lawsuit.

We may laugh at people having lack of common sense....but, there are warnings on almost everything and it's not because the companies thought - oh, someone might try this - nope, it's because someone DID try it and sued.

 

[Jay Dub]

Anyone can file a lawsuit about anything. Doesn't mean it has merit.

 

[biscoe]

Standardization limits innovation.

 

[jeverett]

You buy a cup of hot coffee, you take all responsibility - or should - but the lawsuit was created and won.

You should read up on that coffee lawsuit (or the many that followed it), because it isn't actually about customer responsibility at all. If you actually read up on the hot coffee issue, you'll find out that many franchises super-heat (i.e. they use pressure to get the temperature of the liquid hotter than would normally be possible without it boiling) their coffee. This is not something that people are really familiar with, and is actually extremely dangerous, causing near-immediate third-degree burns if it touches you. The reason the coffee lawsuits have been successful (and many have) is that the companies involved have been unable (in courts of law) to explain *why* super-heating their coffee is necessary, despite the significantly-increased risks the process incurs (the short version is they do it to make the coffee preserve longer). If you want to read a horror story, go read up on the original case, and the injuries the victim sustained. They're not your run-of-the-mill burns.. we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, permanent life-altering injuries, etc.

On the actual topic at hand, as is described above, the big questions revolve around negligence. i.e. Does a property owner know that a tee pad is potentially unsafe?

 

[Jay Dub]

^^Yeah, the coffee lawsuit excuse is used by people who have not read the whole story.

All people want to use from that story is hot coffee and lawsuit.

 

[Norvelljeff]

Brodie's entire Twitter feed is absolutely cringeworthy. I feel bad for him while i'm reading it. He doesn't actually think people are going to listen to what he is saying and implement changes immediately right? How do real disc golfers align with a guy who joins the sport and does nothing but tries to change every ****ing aspect of it and demand attention......Another thing he does constantly is comparing disc golf to ball golf, like the only thing all players want in the world is to mirror the PGA. He needs to STOP thinking he is the only person in disc golf with any experience in professional ball golf.

This guy is so far out of touch with reality from those of us who weren't spoon-fed filet mignon from day 1. He plays a TON of private courses in texas and then walks around telling the rest of the sport via Twitter how we should change based on what he has experienced. Holy narcissistic personality batman.

 

[dehaas]

Not to mention the first parks department this is brought up to:

So you're saying this tee pad in a wooded area is going to be busted up and removed, surrounding trees will be cut down, so a larger concrete tee pad can be installed because pros demand it?

Lolololololol

 

[R-Ogre]

Brodie's entire Twitter feed is absolutely cringeworthy. I feel bad for him while i'm reading it. He doesn't actually think people are going to listen to what he is saying and implement changes immediately right? How do real disc golfers align with a guy who joins the sport and does nothing but tries to change every ****ing aspect of it and demand attention......Another thing he does constantly is comparing disc golf to ball golf, like the only thing all players want in the world is to mirror the PGA. He needs to STOP thinking he is the only person in disc golf with any experience in professional ball golf.

This guy is so far out of touch with reality from those of us who weren't spoon-fed filet mignon from day 1. He plays a TON of private courses in texas and then walks around telling the rest of the sport via Twitter how we should change based on what he has experienced. Holy narcissistic personality batman.

I mean, that's Twitter in a nutshell. There's a lot of good stuff on there but I bailed a few days ago. Just wasn't worth it.