Cam Todd Pro Basket Prototype

[Brodysseus]

I think a Gateway Bullseye basket would do the trick.

Agreed.

 

[Puckstopper]

This i agree with. I think smaller targets for the NT makes a lot of sense at this point. Lead cards at 40 or 50 odd-number under par just seems crazy. It's competitive between those guys, and that's the point, but it does seem that courses have gotten way too easy for the top guys. Smaller targets seem like a good way to slow down that trend. Good luck with the fund-raising.

Agreed, 100%. Putting is too easy.

I'm not a fan of this smaller basket stuff at all. It will not make the game *that* much more challenging at the NT level. But it will make it MUCH less boring to watch. You will see less putts sunk from 50+ feet, you will also see a DRAMATIC drop off in aces. If the goal is to grow the sport to bigger stages, you MUST ensure there will be BIG moments for the camera to film and to keep the audience entertained.

Wrong, wrong wrong. Aces should be rare, and sinking a 50' putt should be an accomplishment, not commonplace. You don't need an ace, or multiple aces, at every tournament to generate compelling storylines, you need competition and adversity for players to overcome. Entertaining the audience means that when McBeth or Will or whoever botches an approach and is 35' out they need to hit a big putt to make up for it. Right now that putt is automatic for so many of these guys that there is no drama. Up the drama, up the number of people paying attention. It's that simple.

 

[Jenga54]

How does a more difficult target make putting more interesting to watch? Real world result is likely to simply be more lay-ups and tap ins.

Or it will force a totally different putting style.

My first year playing seriously was at a course with baskets made by a high school welding class. Dimensions were good, but they only had 1 row of 12 chains (and sketchy baskets). Some chains were wide in spots, etc. so you couldn't putt hard. I learned a style of *Very* light putting technique where you had to hit low and light or risk a blow through on even a perfect putt.

It took another year once we replaced the baskets to learn to "trust the chains" and putt like I meant it. I don't know if this would force lay-ups necessarily, but it would create a different putting style, where putts farther out float in slowly at the end, where a miss is a short miss.

I'll give it that - in golf you try to putt 6-12" past the cup in speed, so it goes in if it's on line, and a miss is right next to the cup. You can't laser putt and trust the cup to eat up your ball.

This will change putting technique, not necessarily strategy. It just artificially adds score. Now a good putter is high percentage from 40' and with this, it's the exact same with that high percentage coming in only about 5-10 feet.

For me, 30' is around 60-65% When I come in 10' to 20, I can hit a very small target and hit 85% Pros will see similar results.

 

[jjpitt29]

One of the basic differences between ball golf and disc golf is creating the mess of ideas. People want to make putting harder to make disc golf harder to make it more like ball golf. BUT the problem is they are two fundamentally different games.

Ball golf is a game of mistakes. Who ever makes the least mistakes wins.
Disc golf is a game of perfect. Who ever is closest to perfect wins.

Baskets are fine the way they are. IF anything they need to catch better (like the mach x and prodigy baskets).

 

[GordEzo]

Lake Stevens , Washington state

Harder baskets ? You should try these ones ! :wall:
And the chain configuration is different each hole , you need to go have a look at it to figure out where to lay up your shot .


http://www.dgcoursereview.com/media.php?id=642&mode=media#

 

[1978]

The one major drawback of this basket, from the pictures, is that the basket is so wide and top narrow/short, if these were installed on a mound or raised location, you would not be able to have a line at the chains if you were below it. This could be a fatal flaw if there is no way around it. I would have to see it mounted up in the air or on a hill to tell.

 

[1978]

One of the basic differences between ball golf and disc golf is creating the mess of ideas. People want to make putting harder to make disc golf harder to make it more like ball golf. BUT the problem is they are two fundamentally different games.

Ball golf is a game of mistakes. Who ever makes the least mistakes wins.
Disc golf is a game of perfect. Who ever is closest to perfect wins.

Baskets are fine the way they are. IF anything they need to catch better (like the mach x and prodigy baskets).

All baskets have drawbacks. The Mach X and Prodigy baskets prevent cut through, but increase spit back (because of the mass of chains) accept high putts less readily, and have a higher ricochet left or right. discatchers and earlier mach baskets sometimes inexplicably reach out and grab wide putts and suck them in. You dont see those on X's or vortex type baskets. In my experience with them.

 

[Mixed Bag Madness]

If putting is so easy for everyone on here why don't we have more 1000+ rated players here then? The next time any of you play a tourney watch how many putts are missed inside the circle on the pro cards. It's a lot. Mcbeth and Simon are just freaks of nature. Make the greens/approaches harder=problem fixed....until everyone finds something else to complain about........

 

[1978]

If putting is so easy for everyone on here why don't we have more 1000+ rated players here then? The next time any of you play a tourney watch how many putts are missed inside the circle on the pro cards. It's a lot. Mcbeth and Simon are just freaks of nature. Make the greens/approaches harder=problem fixed....until everyone finds something else to complain about........

You are right, I am completely underwhelmed in a lot of the pro videos I watch. They make more than the normal good player, but you see LOTS of short misses from great players too.

 

[jjpitt29]

All baskets have drawbacks. The Mach X and Prodigy baskets prevent cut through, but increase spit back (because of the mass of chains) accept high putts less readily, and have a higher ricochet left or right. discatchers and earlier mach baskets sometimes inexplicably reach out and grab wide putts and suck them in. You dont see those on X's or vortex type baskets. In my experience with them.

I've heard that about them too. I haven't had a chance to play on them yet. But you are missing the point if that's what you are focusing on. That was a big IF in my post.

 

[1978]

I've heard that about them too. I haven't had a chance to play on them yet. But you are missing the point if that's what you are focusing on. That was a big IF in my post.

Your sentence reads, "IF anything they need to catch better (like the mach x and prodigy baskets)." The implication is that Mach X and Prodigy baskets catch better. My contention is that they catch certain shots better and other shots they catch worse. Im not sure there is a markedly better catching basket vs all the others on the market. Certainaly Mach X and Prodigy baskets aren't that much better in all areas (cut through, high putt catching, kick back, Am side chain off, Pro side pull in, nub rejection)

I would agree with your post if you didn't say "basically" those 2 style baskets are better at catching discs, which in my experience, aren't.

 

[DavidSauls]

If you had baskets that were adjustable in both height and width of the target area, I wonder where the threshhold would be where putts are more difficult than the current baskets, and thus more rewarding to hit---but not so much that they significantly increased the number of boring layups?

Current baskets have the advantages of familiarity, tradition, and a huge installed base, but if we had adjustable baskets to experiment with, would we really arrive at this particular size?

 

[jeffmonty]

I think a Gateway Bullseye basket would do the trick.

This. I don't really care for the idea of shrinking the target area horizontally. And I only like the original idea of this thread to to be applied to the NT pros. I wouldn't want to see this idea expanded to other courses as a whole.

I'm guessing 80% or more (*pulled stat out of my ass) of disc golfers are chucker/rec/weekend warriors don't need our local courses to be more "challenging". I don't mind being challenged, but I don't need to get beat up every time out. Standard size baskets are just fine as is. And save me from the "just get better" argument, I play to have fun. If the target was smaller, I would have less fun.

 

[DiscDraft]

I like the thin range of chains. I feel like a lot of my made putts would not be inline with the pole, all chain baby. I would be forced to be a better putter if we thinned the volume of chains, and maybe leave the actual basket size, like Cam did here.

I don't know though...the game is evolving, and we all have differing opinions. The beauty of this sport right now is that it is still young and evolving, which allows us all to have a chance to make our mark on the sport.

 

[sprintermatt]

The one major drawback of this basket, from the pictures, is that the basket is so wide and top narrow/short, if these were installed on a mound or raised location, you would not be able to have a line at the chains if you were below it. This could be a fatal flaw if there is no way around it. I would have to see it mounted up in the air or on a hill to tell.

I thought this too, but for mound baskets you could adjust the chain height... seems logical and fair.

 

[The Ox]

These baskets aren't meant to replace all the existing equipment across the country. Courses that have Cam's baskets will offer competitive players a higher degree of difficulty. Top Pros will likely seek out these courses and want to play events on these baskets to challenge themselves.

 

[ohtobediscing]

The angled top on the prototype will most likely be replaced with a smooth circular band, but funds are needed to further the process so donate today !

A smaller opening will give professional/advanced players a more difficult putt.

Disc golf has gotten too easy for professional players, and in order to elevate the sport to the next level, those players need to be pushed to perform at a higher level.

Well, if pro players are your target audience, why aren't you trying to hit them up?

For me, the enjoyment of a course is accentuated when all the variables are touched---elevation, water, vegetation, distance. But once its down to an open 30' putt, all holes are the same and thus, boring. Making the target smaller means the card spends even more time on the least-interesting part of the course.

It seems as if those who would wish for dg to have the commercial presence of ball golf want putting to be what its all about. At least for me and my friends, its about being outside in cool environs, pulling off good drives and outrageous approaches, maybe finishing with a decent putt.

The basket looks good--I'd use one for practice. Do I want them on the course? F no.

 

[1978]

I thought this too, but for mound baskets you could adjust the chain height... seems logical and fair.

Not saying it is an issue. I'm saying, I hope Cam verifies that it is not an issue. I would hope that this style would be viable anywhere a current basket it located.

What would be killer would be for some real thought to be put into baskets coming with built in anti-theft features. Simple bolt and nut design is old. For example an over large hole at the top for a bolt style lock or so that you can lock the top to the pole with a heavy duty u shaped lock. Then you can sell coded locks with the basket. It is way too easy to steal a basket.

 

[biscoe]

Top Pros will likely seek out these courses and want to play events on these baskets to challenge themselves.

It is just as likely they will bitch and moan about them because they are different.

 

[DiscFifty]

These baskets aren't meant to replace all the existing equipment across the country. Courses that have Cam's baskets will offer competitive players a higher degree of difficulty. Top Pros will likely seek out these courses and want to play events on these baskets to challenge themselves.

I disagree with that. Granted, if existing courses stay the same perhaps the basket is all we have left to fiddle with, but it just seems like we're in a state of major talent growth where even average players are throwing 350-400ft. Seems like if anything needs to be fixed it's the path to the basket *, not the basket itself.

* = Much harder, better designed, fairways. #nomorehyzerputthyzerputt