Climo dissapoints...

[spinach d]

Climo dissapoints...

Performance-wise that statement is perpetually untrue, and I appreciate that he played the Minnesota Majestic this year.

If you have watched the interview with Cale Leiviska now showing on DGTV, however, you are aware of Climo's protest of Cale thowing his putter to the ground during the celebration of his monster putt on 18 to tie. As I understand it, Climo thought it should cost Leiviska a penalty stroke, even though the round was technically over.

If the judgement had come down in Climo's favor, could he have really walked away feeling that he had won? I think it would be easier to forgive such petty, cowardly conduct if he was a newcomer, but he is a seasoned veteran of high-level competition. This incedent really shocked me.

 

[zealot]

Just look at his face.... sheepish.

 

[ferretdance03]

... high-level competition.

Just remember, this is their livelihood we're talking about here. Ken keeps the lights on by playing disc golf. The pressure to perform is immense, I'm sure. Plus, aren't we all calling rules infractions when we see them?

Read this, too.

 

[asdf1]

I'm impressed people actually try to enforce the rules. Nice job Climo, shake off the haters. Maybe cale will wait until he actually wins before running around throwing stuff next time.

 

[Blake_T1]

if you are going to continue to discuss this make sure it stays appropriate or this thread will poof like the last one

 

[Anakha]

if you are going to continue to discuss this make sure it stays appropriate or this thread will poof like the last one

Way to be preemptive. :wink:

Many were surprised that Ken made the call, but it is his right to make a call if he feels a rule was broken. Thankfully one had not been. We caught the whole thing on tape, so before anyone passes judgement, watch the DVD when it comes out, till then don't believe what you read on the message boards.

 

[black udder]

I agree that it would probably be a strange way to win, but I'm sure many victories have been due to somebody's "stupid" mistake. After reading Timmy's interview, it sounds like a valid issue. There are many ways to "earn" an extra stroke during a round - and since this went to a playoff - who's to say that stroke isn't applied to the playoff? Sounds goofy, but some rules can be taken to goofy lengths.

Sounds like it all worked out and was great entertainment though.

I think it says a lot about Cale's game that he was up there again.

 

[SkaBob]

If disc golf is going to ever become a major sport in the public eye, we can't be trying to get down on people for celebrating a good shot, especially after a round has technically ended...

Sure, the NFL has limitations on what you can do to celebrate a touchdown, but that's only because people were taking their celebrations so far they needed to be reigned in. Complaining that he celebrated a monster putt to tie on the last hole of the round just comes across as stuffy...

 

[Steezo]

The only thing I wonder about this is:
What did this call, and I'm guessing a 5-10 minute discussion, do to Cale's momentum? I think this momentum would be the main importance going into a playoff.

 

[black udder]

bottom line is if you throw a disc, it's a stroke. They were going into sudden death.

You don't see ball golfers tee up a ball and hit it celebration.

He could have thrown his hat, his towel... any number of things that would have made the whole discussion moot. But he tossed a disc.

While I agree, and the final decision was, that no stroke should be counted, it was something Cale could have avoided and probably should have. There have been many victories - Barry's recent wins, and all he does is hold up the disc. Cale just got a little too excited. While that's great for him, he just shouldn't have thrown the disc.

If you read Timmy's comments, this really wasn't that big a deal. It sounds much more like the question was asked, determined and the answer was "no stroke penalty". To me, it just shows that Ken is a fierce competitor and is willing to take advantage of rookie mistakes. Had Cale acted more like a "professional", then there would have been no incident at all.

Someone compared it to football - and the old retort to the end zone celebrations applies here. Act like you've been there before. Cale was pretty pumped, but his reaction was more like somebody who didn't believe he could do it. Not somebody who had the confidence already. Basically - mistake of youth. No big deal.

As far as lessons go, this was pretty painless.

 

[zealot]

Someone compared it to football - and the old retort to the end zone celebrations applies here. Act like you've been there before. Cale was pretty pumped, but his reaction was more like somebody who didn't believe he could do it. Not somebody who had the confidence already. Basically - mistake of youth.

No, his reaction was in celebration of making the playoffs. If Cale didn't believe he could make the shot, he wouldn't have made it.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Someone compared it to football - and the old retort to the end zone celebrations applies here. Act like you've been there before. Cale was pretty pumped, but his reaction was more like somebody who didn't believe he could do it. Not somebody who had the confidence already. Basically - mistake of youth.

No, his reaction was in celebration of making the playoffs. If Cale didn't believe he could make the shot, he wouldn't have made it.

What?

 

[black udder]

Someone compared it to football - and the old retort to the end zone celebrations applies here. Act like you've been there before. Cale was pretty pumped, but his reaction was more like somebody who didn't believe he could do it. Not somebody who had the confidence already. Basically - mistake of youth.

No, his reaction was in celebration of making the playoffs. If Cale didn't believe he could make the shot, he wouldn't have made it.

If he believed it, then he expected to make the playoffs. If he expected it, then why the excess celebration? Not slamming him, just saying that folks that have "been there, done that" typically don't react quite like that.

And while I realize confidence and belief play a part in disc golf, he could very well not believe he could make that putt and still make it. It's not like if you don't believe it, it won't happen.

 

[Fritz]

Cale is a great competitor and is going to be one of the great players if he continues to play at the level he has been playing. He made a HUGE drive this weekend at High Plains Challenge in CO (he lost to Mike Randolph by 1 stroke, man what a great final 9) anyway, All in all I think Ken was right to question if a rule had been broken. After all (correct me if I'm wrong I'm going off second hand info) the round technically wasn't over because Ken still had to putt? So according to the rules, the tournament round was still in progress and throwing a disc is an infraction.
If Ken had putted and they were tied, is there a break in between playoffs? If not then the tournament is not over and tournament play is still in effect and therefore that was a rule infraction.

Either way it was a good competition and like someone else said here if we are going to be taken serious as serious sport and serious competitors, we need to enforce the rules of play.

 

[_.-Dut-._]

I think the whole thing is kind of petty. The "throw" went 3 feet. He could have dropped it further then that. Im not saying that players should toss there putter into the crowd or break into the worm everytime they hit a putt but in this case im glad there was no penalty given.

 

[black udder]

I think the rules state that during competition, you can't throw a disc more than 3' or it's a stroke. That means, tossing a putter to somebody after you've pulled it, tossing it in the air, etc. Anything.

The problem is where do you draw the line if you start making exceptions? It's similar to "gimme" putts. If it's at the base, you'd pick it up for somebody, if it's 3' it's a gimme - if it's 5' it's a gimme... where is it possible to miss? At what point do you make everybody putt every putt? That's why you have rules. In tournament play, the rules are the only thing that competitors can lean on to ensure everybody gets a fair game.

I think the true test of this whole event is that he was not stroked, so common sense won out. But the asking of the question was legitimate and should have been broached by somebody other than Ken (a TD or ref).

And, I agree about Cale's improvements. A couple years ago he was just another up and comer, but he really seems to have separated himself from the pack. I hope he's able to continue playing as long as Ken, Barry and those guys.

 

[Mark Brunner]

Honestly, the correct call was made. The round is say 18 holes, on hole 18 Cale hit his putt and holed out which finished his round. So after that he can get away with murder. The rules are not very clear whether the round is over when you hole out or if the entire card has to whole out to end the round. Future elaboration perhaps? Typical disc golf rules Just my .02's

There is nothing wrong with questioning the rule though, might as well.

 

[Star Shark]

Yes, he holed out, but it was to tie Climo. So, automatically there are playoff hole implications, therefore they are still in the process of playing. There's a fair bit of grey area here. Climo was being a bit anal, but Leiviska shouldn't have thrown the disc.

 

[Craig1]

had Climo already holed out? Or was he still waiting to shoot?

Is this a situation like the Ryders Cup a few years back, where one of the Americans (Justin Leonard?) holed a long putt, and the entire US Team ran out onto the green in celebration, when the European player still had a long putt to halve the hole?

 

[MDR_3000]

Climo still had to hole out.