Climo dissapoints...

[Jerry r]

I'm glad the call went the way it did, who wouldn't be stoked making that clutch putt. I certainly give The Champ the benefit of the doubt on this. He couldn't be the face of the game for 19 years being petty. I've read so many posts here and on other forums where people have griped about others not having the guts to call rules violations, now there's a big fuss when someone does call a potential rules inftraction.

The round is say 18 holes, on hole 18 Cale hit his putt and holed out which finished his round. So after that he can get away with murder.

I think I've read in relation to alcohol that you can not have any until the card is turned in. Does this apply to other rules as well i.e. courtesy, practice throws etc?

 

[some call me...tim?]

I think the rules state that during competition, you can't throw a disc more than 3' or it's a stroke.

Not to be anal, but it's 2 meters, or any direction towards the basket. I made a post in the other thread that "poofed" about that...Cale's throw definitely wasn't 2 meters and it wasn't towards the basket at all. I think it was a little tacky of him to spike the disc like that but I don't think it was a rules infraction.

Honestly, I think what really happened was that KC thought he had it all wrapped up and was taking home a load of cash, when all the sudden Cale drains a very improbable putt. Suddenly the game is changed, he'll have to fight for the win, and this kid is running around like he's won the lottery. I imagine KC was a little pissed that his thunder was stolen, and seeing the disc spiked gave him an opportunity to steal it back and not have to worry about a playoff. All in all, I think it was poor taste shown by both players, but if I had to side with someone, it'd be with Cale.

 

[Steezo]

I don't think there was poor anything displayed by either KC or Cale. It happened, Timmy was there, it was handled. If you can lose by the rules then you can win by the rules.

 

[spinach d]

I will say that fate and karma would seem to dictate that Climo would lose after the incident. But he won anyway. In terms of performance, there is no-one better.

 

[Johnnytothec]

Disc golf and golf (As a former competitive golfer, I REFUSE to call golf "ball golf") have very similar rules, and when things are not clearly outlined in our rules, they often default to golf's rules. In golf, if a player finishes his round before the leaders, and a playoff is a posibillity, they CAN go the range hit balls or putt until the playoff begins.

 

[discrat]

I thought this Thread to be very intersting and figured we needed to keep it going :lol:

I really have mixed feelings concerning this. I am sure KC has NEVER violated this important rule. And if he did I am sure he would penalize himself. He has always seemed to be the role model of good sportmmanship every round I have folllowed him at USDGC !!

Saying that though it is a little bit anal retentive to try to call it on a shot like this.
I mean come on. I think a little common sense can be used here. If we were all so high and mighty stringent on living up to formal rules then we would be citizen arresting our own selbves when we go 5 mph over the speed limit in our cars everyday !!!

That being said Rules are meant for a reason. They are meant for eveyone to follow so there will be order and fairness in our society.

But I say in some unique circumstances discretion needs to also be properly utilized.

The champ will always be the champ in my book in his ability and sportsmanship. I say that it all really boils down to if he has consistently called this on people in the past. If he has not ,then I disagree with what he attempted to do.And it was a blatant attempt to secure a sure win and showing a little bit of angst in being tied in that manner.
If he has, then kudos to him !! Just like the NFL and NBA !! The Rules do not have to be followed strictly by the book and are NOT necessarily important when it comes to calling infraction violations.
But the importance in these sports is that there is a consistent manner in which these refs actually call the infractions in each indiviual game..

 

[roadkill1]

I'm with Black Udder on this one.

Cale could have celebrated in a number of ways: fist pump into the air, a big leap into the air, pound his chest,etc but instead he threw a disc and he did it while his playing partner, Ken still had to complete the hole. It may not have constituted a stroke in this instance but it was in poor taste and I have no problem with Climo bringing it into question.

Golf is supposed to be a gentleman's sport and we should be mindful of the rules as well as proper etiquette. Being a great player is more than just how many strokes it took to complete a round. It is also about being professional and courteous.

 

[redspexxx]

I'm with Black Udder on this one.

Cale could have celebrated in a number of ways: fist pump into the air, a big leap into the air, pound his chest,etc but instead he threw a disc and he did it while his playing partner, Ken still had to complete the hole. It may not have constituted a stroke in this instance but it was in poor taste and I have no problem with Climo bringing it into question.

Golf is supposed to be a gentleman's sport and we should be mindful of the rules as well as proper etiquette. Being a great player is more than just how many strokes it took to complete a round. It is also about being professional and courteous.

this is DISC golf. while i do appreciate the manners and order regular golf as lent the disc version, seriously, who wants disc golf to be anything like ball golf[except the money at torunys ] he didnt throw it far enough to be stroked, case closed. and lets all be real for a second. if any of us were putting to tie climo on 18, not many are making that putt. and the ones that do arent just gonna pump their fist and smile. celebration is a part of sport, most of them get that. nfl players can do a small dance if they do something good. nba players [and college, which has strict celebration rules] toss the ball into the rafters after a big win. baseball players trot off homeruns, and everyone in the dugout comes out to celebrate. nascar drivers do a backflip and doughnuts after they win. all of the signs are "celebrations" but they come after very emotional events durring a sporting event. so if he didnt break a rule by doing it, he didnt break a rule.

 

[roadkill1]

. so if he didnt break a rule by doing it, he didnt break a rule.

According to our rules the only thing that separated him from a penalty stroke were distance and/or direction of his throw.

The topic of this thread appears to be bashing Climo for bringing up a possible rules violation. While it was (rightfully) determined a penalty was not warranted Climo was not out of line to bring it up.

 

[redspexxx]

eh. i guess thats just a matter of opinion. i guess i expect a guy like climo to know the ins and outs of rules. a rule like that isnt a judgement call like a tag at home plate in baseball, it has to be something specific happening[ a throw of more than 6 feet in this case]. to me it kinda felt like ken wanted the easy way out. calling people out on rules is fine when its done when it should be. but, in that situation, when you look at what was done, and what could result from what was done, i dont think it was done in keeping the spirit of competition fair. climo just leaves me with a bad taste after that one...

 

[asdf1]

eh. i guess thats just a matter of opinion. i guess i expect a guy like climo to know the ins and outs of rules. a rule like that isnt a judgement call like a tag at home plate in baseball, it has to be something specific happening[ a throw of more than 6 feet in this case]. to me it kinda felt like ken wanted the easy way out. calling people out on rules is fine when its done when it should be. but, in that situation, when you look at what was done, and what could result from what was done, i dont think it was done in keeping the spirit of competition fair. climo just leaves me with a bad taste after that one...

How about expanding on this part?

 

[black udder]

eh. i guess thats just a matter of opinion. i guess i expect a guy like climo to know the ins and outs of rules. a rule like that isnt a judgement call like a tag at home plate in baseball, it has to be something specific happening[ a throw of more than 6 feet in this case]. to me it kinda felt like ken wanted the easy way out. calling people out on rules is fine when its done when it should be. but, in that situation, when you look at what was done, and what could result from what was done, i dont think it was done in keeping the spirit of competition fair. climo just leaves me with a bad taste after that one...

While I agree that the end result is appropriate. The *whole* thing could have been avoided if, what? Let's here it... Cale didn't throw a disc. Simple. God. What do we do for a stroke in Disc Golf? Throw it, right? Is it not a stroke if your putt is less than 6 feet? 12 feet? I know. Stupid comments. There are plenty of people playing this game that celebrate in any number of ways. This was just a rookie mistake.

I watched USDGC Lead Card live and watched 4 professionals go through the best and the worst in a round and not one of them threw a disc unless it was for a stroke.

Why would you think that playing by the rules is "taking the easy way out"? If it was the player's responsibility to know all the rules of the game in and out, then why would we have judges/refs?

I applaud the skill and frame of mind it took to make the the putt that Cale did. It was great. He played an amazing game to tie it up. A lot of folks would cave under the pressure. But he did the one thing that could be called into play - throw a disc. doh!

 

[redspexxx]

eh. i guess thats just a matter of opinion. i guess i expect a guy like climo to know the ins and outs of rules. a rule like that isnt a judgement call like a tag at home plate in baseball, it has to be something specific happening[ a throw of more than 6 feet in this case]. to me it kinda felt like ken wanted the easy way out. calling people out on rules is fine when its done when it should be. but, in that situation, when you look at what was done, and what could result from what was done, i dont think it was done in keeping the spirit of competition fair. climo just leaves me with a bad taste after that one...

How about expanding on this part?

ok. well look at it like this. a guys nails a huge, mucho important putt, and spikes a disc. ok, wrong on his part. but, according to the rules, he didnt do anything wrong. common sense lost the battle with excitment, but other than that, he did not break a rule. to stroke him for what he did would be fractions short of robbery. a warning maybe, but not a stroke. i can almost say without a doubt ken climo was not asking about the thrown disc rule to give him a warning at that stage in the game. now, look at what was in question. a disc was spiked after a long putt. not thrown with any form, or grace, but out of emotion. if it were myself, on another non pro player, calling that rule out would have still been just as cheap, but ignorance of the rules could be cited as a reason to do that. klimo knows the rules. probably helped write them. what he did was, to me, like an nfl coach throwing the challenge flag on an obvious play and hoping for home-team ref's seeing something that no one else see's. and on a personal note, i dont wanna throw discs with someones name who wins by technicalities :roll:

 

[Donkeypuncher1]

I think the decision could go either way, but I believe klimo had a legitimate argument. It may not have been very sportsman like, but a rule was broken and klmo called him out on it.

 

[black udder]

eh. i guess thats just a matter of opinion. i guess i expect a guy like climo to know the ins and outs of rules. a rule like that isnt a judgement call like a tag at home plate in baseball, it has to be something specific happening[ a throw of more than 6 feet in this case]. to me it kinda felt like ken wanted the easy way out. calling people out on rules is fine when its done when it should be. but, in that situation, when you look at what was done, and what could result from what was done, i dont think it was done in keeping the spirit of competition fair. climo just leaves me with a bad taste after that one...

How about expanding on this part?

ok. well look at it like this. a guys nails a huge, mucho important putt, and spikes a disc. ok, wrong on his part. but, according to the rules, he didnt do anything wrong. common sense lost the battle with excitment, but other than that, he did not break a rule. to stroke him for what he did would be fractions short of robbery. a warning maybe, but not a stroke. i can almost say without a doubt ken climo was not asking about the thrown disc rule to give him a warning at that stage in the game. now, look at what was in question. a disc was spiked after a long putt. not thrown with any form, or grace, but out of emotion. if it were myself, on another non pro player, calling that rule out would have still been just as cheap, but ignorance of the rules could be cited as a reason to do that. klimo knows the rules. probably helped write them. what he did was, to me, like an nfl coach throwing the challenge flag on an obvious play and hoping for home-team ref's seeing something that no one else see's. and on a personal note, i dont wanna throw discs with someones name who wins by technicalities :roll:

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I'd imagine from your comments you're not a bad guy. I'd say if nothing else, you're young if only because your viewpoint demonstrates all that is "good" or "right" about a competitive game.

We've tossed around the NFL and NBA, but you know if you're a fan, that every player is out there fouling on 98% of plays. They live by the edict, "if there's no whistle, there's no foul". How do you feel about the infamous NFL's "tuck" rule? The NFL's Bert Emmanuel rule"? These are rules that were created due to a lack of specificity in the existing rules. They changed games and careers.

No sport is perfect, but saying that a player is trying to win on a technicality when he's just asking about a rule is not cheap. Most players don't foot fault or cheat on the course. Most players don't throw their discs in celebration either.

All I can say is if it were me, I'd be looking for somebody to clarify that action as well. It's like the last two minutes in an NFL game when only the booth can call an instant replay and you *know* you see a need, but they don't. In this case, Ken was allowed to call for a ruling.

I'll shutup now.

 

[redspexxx]

We've tossed around the NFL and NBA, but you know if you're a fan, that every player is out there fouling on 98% of plays. They live by the edict, "if there's no whistle, there's no foul". How do you feel about the infamous NFL's "tuck" rule? The NFL's Bert Emmanuel rule"? These are rules that were created due to a lack of specificity in the existing rules. They changed games and careers.

No sport is perfect, but saying that a player is trying to win on a technicality when he's just asking about a rule is not cheap. Most players don't foot fault or cheat on the course. Most players don't throw their discs in celebration either.

All I can say is if it were me, I'd be looking for somebody to clarify that action as well. It's like the last two minutes in an NFL game when only the booth can call an instant replay and you *know* you see a need, but they don't. In this case, Ken was allowed to call for a ruling.

I'll shutup now.

it is kinda hard to compare disc to other sports. but one thing, most of the things you listed affect the outcome of games. maybe this is more like a tough pass interference call where a big name wide reciever thinks he was roughed, begs for a flag and gets one. on the last play of the game. this kid does what he did at any other time in the round, he should and probably would get called for it. my view is young, but still, i think a lot of people share the way i feel about my heros and icons, and that is i would rather my hero save the day by slaying the dragon rather than shooting it in the back... metaphorically speaking. ken wasnt really in the "wrong" for doing what he did, but it does kinda take him off the pedestal i put him on. in the end, this really isnt about the rules, its about the opinions. and internet forums rarely change those

 

[Donkeypuncher1]

We've tossed around the NFL and NBA, but you know if you're a fan, that every player is out there fouling on 98% of plays. They live by the edict, "if there's no whistle, there's no foul". How do you feel about the infamous NFL's "tuck" rule? The NFL's Bert Emmanuel rule"? These are rules that were created due to a lack of specificity in the existing rules. They changed games and careers.

You forgot the Roy Williams horse collar tackle rule, and the leaving the bench rule in the NBA.

I really don't see why people are upset about this. Maybe it's just klimo hatred, but to be honest I probably would have called the same thing he did. It's okay in casual play, but these guys are in an elite category at the upper echelon of disc golf where rules are strictly enforced.

In the end, I could care less because I think they are both awesome players. This is the classic battle of old school VS new school and it's a joy to see them compete.

 

[the invisible tree]

I know you've all been waiting for me to weigh in. I don't really like either players' actions. I would not want to "win" an event by calling a player on a stupid penalty like that. I would also not do anything even remotely questionable if I was competing at that level.

 

[TexasOutlaw]

Not sure I understand the scope of a thread (my mind has gotten cloudy in my old age). I figure we should support our pros regardless.

As far as rules, I believe that if we have them, we should follow them. Even in casual rounds, I see people wanting to call some rules but ignore others. If you point out a rule violation, they call you a disc snob.

 

[Hoey1]

it is what it is