Color and Stability

[optidiscic]

(Pre Rube dont go all Pre Rube on me...just let this go for a day or two before banishing it...thanks)

Experienced players seem to cling to the belief that specific colors offer more stability/durability in certain discs and plastics.

I tend to agree given the evidence Ive seen in Innova Aviar putters(red seems to last longer than yellow for instance)

Internet know it alls love to ridicule those who bring this up

I'd like to open this up again for discussion

(fully aware its been discussed in different threads but color as a key words leads to endless disc dying threads so deal with it Pre Rube)

 

[optidiscic]

Im speaking of primarily Innova discs btw

 

[jrawk]

Always thought color specification was simply to annotate "batches" and the consistency between each. i.e. RED SS Voodoos are softer than BLUE SS Voodoos (hypothetical example).

EDIT: no idea about Innova.

 

[ArcheType]

Pink and orange last longer for me,

because they're harder to lose.

I don't really buy into it any more than that.

 

[optidiscic]

Always thought color specification was simply to annotate "batches" and the consistency between each. i.e. RED SS Voodoos are softer than BLUE SS Voodoos (hypothetical example).

could be as Ive also heard that color relates to hardness of plastic but is this to identify or cause I have no idea

 

[NoThingness]

could be as Ive also heard that color relates to hardness of plastic but is this to identify or cause I have no idea

This is true esp when comparing clear plastics and coloured plastics. As soon as you add a colour to the plastic it changes its density overall characteristics

 

[mashnut]

The color itself really doesn't have anything to do with it. There are often minor differences between runs of discs, both in exact plastic mixes and in how the discs cool based on weather, so if they do a bunch of discs in one color on a cool rainy day, then run a different color on a warm dry day, those discs will have differences, not caused by the color but differentiated by it.

 

[sloppydisc]

Assuming, yes I know that's dangerous, that a disc manufacturing plant and the cable plants I have been in are similar as to how they handle plastics, the color should have nothing tom do with stability. Unless the manufacturer intentionally used a certain color pellet blended with a specific plastic or mold to influence the stability. Basically in our plants, we add color pellets for whatever we're making on that specific production run. But the actual properties of the plastic are not SUPPOSED to be different. That being said, plastic company's sometimes ship something other than what they are supposed to, and people in a manufacturing plant can and do make mistakes. My experience tells me that it is mostly BS that a color would be different in stability. Maybe one run, but over time and many discs it is probably not true.

 

[captain jack]

Its not hokus pokus, individual colors are all run at the same time, experiencing the same heating and cooling process at the factory. If you know a red disc from a certain run is more overstable than some other colors, because you have thrown a few from that run, then you will seek it out.

If different colors are run on different days, they may have different flight characteristics.

I have experienced this myself, if I find a disc that works well, I will try and find another one in the same color.

Here's what I'm interested in. I remember reading somewhere that Discraft ran different colors of the same mold with varying stability, and kept track. Certain colors were designed to be more stable.
Now I cant find anything about this.

Does anyone else know if Discraft is doing controlled studies with colors vs. stability ?
I know I didnt dream this up.
Well, maybe I did, but I usually dream about boobs and stuff, so it would be unusual. :\

 

[optidiscic]

Its not hokus pokus, individual colors are all run at the same time, experiencing the same heating and cooling process at the factory. If you know a red disc from a certain run is more overstable than some other colors, because you have thrown a few from that run, then you will seek it out.

If different colors are run on different days, they may have different flight characteristics.

I have experienced this myself, if I find a disc that works well, I will try and find another one in the same color.

Here's what I'm interested in. I remember reading somewhere that Discraft ran different colors of the same mold with varying stability, and kept track. Certain colors were designed to be more stable.
Now I cant find anything about this.

Does anyone else know if Discraft is doing controlled studies with colors vs. stability ?
I know I didnt dream this up.
Well, maybe I did, but I usually dream about boobs and stuff, so it would be unusual. :\

What color boobs are most stable?

seriously though I know there has to meat to these rumours because anyone I know who has played more than 10 yrs seeks out specific colors not for visibility but for flight characteristics

 

[toothyfish]

Depending on the make-up of the color additive there could be hardness difference, though it would be subtle in the mix.

But figure, like most companies would, they run a batch of one color, then change, run another batch, and so on. How long they would run each color is hard to say (hours, days, who knows) but there could be process shifts during that as well.

It could definately be correlation, meaning the disc properties seem to follow the color, but hard to prove a cause and effect, meaning the reason is solely because of the color and not other issues that coindided with the color changes. Make sense?

 

[craftsman]

Living in dc country I hear a lot of this...and yes I subscribe

Imo(currently own hundreds of dc discs):
Yellow and orange seem flippy, with yellow being the most flippy.
Red and blue seem to be stable with red being the most.
I generally throw orange and blue.

 

[optidiscic]

I had a red beast that was stable as well and typically red aviars far otlive their yellow brothers....hmmmm

 

[scarpfish]

I know of a pro player in our area that swears by this.

There are some theories that the different pigments and fillers used in making discs have properties that can have an effect on stability. Yellow for whatever reason has a reputation of making less stable plastic. I can't really say I know enough to confirm or dismiss the theory. I kind of wish all disc companies would start using something akin to Millennium's batch numbers, because that would really give us a good clue to either prove or debunk it.

I think one reason that the color/stability theory has some traction with people is that disc manufacturers often do their first runs in a limited number of colors, each color from a different batch on a different day with different temperature/humidity variables in play. After people start throwing them to test them out, the colors being the most easily seen characteristic get the credit (or blame) for the way the disc performs, even though other variables are likely at fault. This reputation then carries over into that mold's production run discs, and sometimes to other molds made by the same company.

 

[Triflusal]

I think even if color matters, in the end parting line height is going to have more of an effect on stability

 

[optidiscic]

discussion is about color and not PLH

 

[Triflusal]

I think even if color matters, in the end parting line height is going to have more of an effect on stability

^^^^

 

[optidiscic]

Interesting point made earlier regarding clear plastics being less stab le and as color is added the disc becomes more stable.......Opto is clear and has the rep of being quite stable however they dont make any colored opto plastics so who knows?

 

[yawpstang64]

They're making many of the Opto in fairly vibrant colors now, and all the blitzs I've ever seen are also pretty darkly colored.
Nothing like the opaque champs though, but thats largely from the weighing agents, apparently. The weight-opacity difference is more visible in Z too I think - light hornets and buzzzes can be extremely translucent.
I guess my opto core could be a nice disc if it were a dark purple (its basically a fuse these days)

 

[smarkquart]

I worked in a catalogue printing plant for seven years. The product is obviously different (paper versus plastic) but the overall concept of production is relatively the same.

We were always at the mercy of the paper supplier, always assuming that the wrapper on those 2 ton rolls of paper is correct. Most of the time we had press operators who would instantly tell if something is wrong, but there were on occassion a time when something was printed on the wrong paper and was not caught until the samples reached the customer. Most of the time in this occurance it is too late because we have already mailed the product to the consumer. It is also standard practice of printing/ producing the highest quality batch for the customer (referred to as A-Copies) so they think they are producing a top notch product for their consumers. We would not print crap for the consumers, but quality became a little lax (we still had to pull out random samples from these runs and send them to the customer just to prove we were doing a good job as well as if there is a problem, we can narrow down when it was run and by whom).

Moisture from a humid day had little effect on the paper itself, but more so on the binding glue. Every shift, every box of the binding glue, had to be adjusted and monitored. Thankfully what passes for a catalogue and what passes for a disc is two completely different things. As long as the glue held, the consumer would never know the subtle differences in how well it held. Obviously that is not true of a disc. If a density, chemical make-up, and whatnot can affect the stability of a disc, the discerning consumer will instantly know.

Then you throw in the additional process of heating and cooling the disc. Even in the printing plant this is something we had to worry about. If the ink does not instantly dry on the paper, if it is not heat cured quick enough, the ink will stick the pages together as they are pressed together on a pallet so it can be shipped across the plant to the bindery. There is a certain temperature these printing machines (which are about the size of submarines) have to maintain and can be affected by the environment. I am not talking greatly, but it is enough to be monitored and have the machine constantly adjust itself. I can only image the temperatures these discs need to be heated to to be molded into shape. Like metal heated too hotly and then instantly iced, it will not survive, plastic is the same. I am sure these plants do a wonderful job of climate control to ensure all discs are cooled evenly, but you have to believe that some variation can happen, especially between discs made during the heat of summer and the dead of winter. Now take into consideration a smaller operation who may not be able to afford the highest end environment control and even the difference between a day and night shift may play a role.

Beyond me just babbling about the production aspect of producing a disc, does this really affect me? Most likely not because I do not have the inside knowledge of knowing what color was run at what time at that plant, and or have played long enough to know that a specific color is more desirable in a certain run. My white 165g Star TeeBird and blue 178g Gold Line River are awesome; my orange 170g Star TeeBird and orange 162g Gold Line River, not so much. There are too many variables for me to really care so I think I will stick with the colors I can see and worry about the more predictable variable like weight.