Courtesy violation

[hem1t]

Question and thoughts.
Scenario: Matchplay singles
A golfer steps up to tee off, and his opponent has his back to him. Just when the golfer is about to drive, the opponent yells to someone else on the course. This causes the golfer to throw a wild shot and go OB. The opponent who yelled out said that the golfer can re-tee, to which the golfer does and throws a good shot. Resulting in the hole being halved. And in the end the golfer ends up winning the match by 1up.

I know the courtesy violation rule is a warning, and a penalty shot for every violation after that, for singles play, but does this differ in Matchplay singles??. Where it is one on one. I would've thought that if the opponent has said its ok for the golfer to re-tee, then it's ok.
What is the ruling or thoughts??

 

[Mattallica]

Play it both ways and if there's a td ask them. I've played a lot of Match play though, and in that scenario, if I had reached an agreement with my opponent I'd just play on.

 

[Mattallica]

I change my answer. Throw the hole out or allow the rethrow.

 

[joecoin]

Wait until your opponent is teeing off and pop a paper bag behind him. Even Steven.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

The opponent who yelled out said that the golfer can re-tee...

If you wanted to go by the book:
The yeller gets a courtesy violation warning, and the thrower has to play the OB shot.

801.04
C. Players should take care not to produce any auditory or visual distractions while other players are throwing. Distracting actions include: shouting, cursing, freestyling, striking course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, throwing minis, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player. Shouting at an appropriate time to warn someone in danger of being struck by a disc is not a courtesy violation.

G. A player violating a courtesy rule may be warned by any affected player, even if from another group, or by an official. The player shall be assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent courtesy violation of any type in the same round. Repeated violations of courtesy rules may result in disqualification in accordance with Section 3.3 of the Competition Manual.

 

[DavidSauls]

Match play singles has an interesting aspect to it---which is that no one else has a real interest in the results of a match. So if you give your opponent a pass on a rule, no one else is likely to care.

 

[DatRedDude]

Match play singles has an interesting aspect to it---which is that no one else has a real interest in the results of a match. So if you give your opponent a pass on a rule, no one else is likely to care.

Unless its part of a bigger team thing, i.e. Ryder Cup type format.

What i would say is get mentally stronger. If you are able to block everything out then you wouldn't have to worry about this scenario.

 

[Jabumbo]

In this instance, I feel that the ultimate result of the match is inconsequential to the ruling.

Being match play, I would think, as DavidSauls says, no one else really has an interest and any decision made by the 2 players here would be acceptable. I don't think it's enough of an issue that you would need to play out both situations and wait for an official ruling.

Plus, if a hole outcome from mid round is unknown, it changes the way both players will attack for the rest of the round. You are obviously going to make different approaches depending on if you are ahead or behind.

 

[JC17393]

In match play, there is no reason to play anything provisionally if the two players agree to a ruling, even if the decision amounts to making it up as they go. To me, the discussion ends when the player who yelled offered to let the other player re-tee. By willingly offering that and the player re-teeing, they're mutually agreeing to a solution. He can't turn around after it's over and cry foul about the re-tee possibly/likely costing him the match.

Match play is a different animal from regular stroke play in that each match is a separate tournament unto itself, and the players involved are really the only arbiters of what the rules should be. After all, players are allowed gimmes and concessions during matches, which are explicitly disallowed in regular stroke play because both are instances of failing to hole out. Practice throws (say practicing a putt after the hole is concluded) are also allowed if mutually agreed upon. Why wouldn't they also be empowered to allow each other do-overs if they feel the situation warrants?

 

[DavidSauls]

As a TD of an event with match play, I worry about these non-conforming situations causing me grief. Otherwise, it's whatever makes the players happy. I don't even check scorecards---if they turn the card in with one payer declared Winner, what do I care if they can't count?

But, in this case, what if the courtesy violator grants a re-throw, and then the re-throw is worse than the original? If so, I just hope they work it out between themselves.

Among the oddities and delights of match play is that most matches are decided by more than 1 hole, so a lot of provisionals and disputes get thrown out, anyway.

 

[ru4por]

As a TD of an event with match play, I worry about these non-conforming situations causing me grief. Otherwise, it's whatever makes the players happy. I don't even check scorecards---if they turn the card in with one payer declared Winner, what do I care if they can't count?

But, in this case, what if the courtesy violator grants a re-throw, and then the re-throw is worse than the original? If so, I just hope they work it out between themselves.

Among the oddities and delights of match play is that most matches are decided by more than 1 hole, so a lot of provisionals and disputes get thrown out, anyway.

Seems as if this is an arguement for not allowing a rethrow. I agree the players should solve the issue, but I also think the solution should attempt to follow the prescribed set of rules. Giving a courtesy and a re-throw probably is not right, and not giving the courtesy warning could cause grieve, if it continues. I don't want to be a rules nazi, but they generally serve as a great starting point in decision making in the field.

 

[JC17393]

Seems as if this is an arguement for not allowing a rethrow. I agree the players should solve the issue, but I also think the solution should attempt to follow the prescribed set of rules. Giving a courtesy and a re-throw probably is not right, and not giving the courtesy warning could cause grieve, if it continues. I don't want to be a rules nazi, but they generally serve as a great starting point in decision making in the field.

Courtesy warnings/penalties are virtually useless in a match play scenario anyway. Courtesy penalties are not assessed to a specific hole, but to the player's overall score. There is no overall score in match play, therefore the penalties have no impact.

Match play is really much more of a "gentlemen's game" in that the players involved are the sole judges of what goes. No matter what decisions are made for out of the ordinary situations, the sword could cut either way and both players are accepting that possibility. The player offering the re-throw does not have to offer it, and by doing so is willingly taking the chance that it could cost him the hole. By the same token, the player taking the re-throw does not have to accept it but by doing so is willingly taking the chance that it could turn out worse than the original and cost him the hole.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

Courtesy warnings/penalties are virtually useless in a match play scenario anyway. Courtesy penalties are not assessed to a specific hole, but to the player's overall score. There is no overall score in match play, therefore the penalties have no impact.

If a player gets their 2nd courtesy warning, they get a stroke added to their score for the hole in which the violation occurs. Thus the violation could cost them the hole and match. Overall scores in match play are used for overall match tie-breakers.

 

[DavidSauls]

If a player gets their 2nd courtesy warning, they get a stroke added to their score for the hole in which the violation occurs. Thus the violation could cost them the hole and match. Overall scores in match play are used for overall match tie-breakers.

We neither record nor use overall scores. We either leave matches tied, or use sudden death.

 

[Didn'tSeeThatTree]

If I was the "yeller" and won by 1 stroke I wouldn't feel right about it. What happened sounds fair. Rules are meant to keep competition fair, sometimes it's unclear and in this case it sounds like common sense prevailed.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

We neither record nor use overall scores. We either leave matches tied, or use sudden death.

In the NorCal vs SoCal Team Challenge the individual match scores are used as tiebreakers for the overall team scores.

 

[DavidSauls]

In the NorCal vs SoCal Team Challenge the individual match scores are used as tiebreakers for the overall team scores.

Interesting. Despite my love of match play and running events using it, I'm not a golfer so am uncertain. Is this regularly done in other places, golf or disc golf?

We just mark holes won, and don't keep track of overall strokes. Indeed, match play encourages people to sometimes go for shots where they wouldn't, if they were concerned with their stroke totals.

I've used match play in two times of tournaments---single elimination individual, and team play. In the former, we use sudden-death. In the latter, we have 4 rounds with differing point systems for the teams, and in the match play, split the points for ties. In the unlikely event that the teams tie in overall points, we have a special tiebreaker.

 

[araytx]

In the NorCal vs SoCal Team Challenge the individual match scores are used as tiebreakers for the overall team scores.

And if a player is 3up with 2 holes left do they keep playing??? Seems not an equal thing.

And if a player has won a hole before the other holes out, do you guys make him finish the hole so there will be a score on each hole???

If so, this sounds like "modified match play" to me.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

All of the matches are played out until the 18th hole. This keeps players from wandering around the course too. We play 36 straight holes and then break for the day. First round is singles and second round doubles with your travelling partner.

 

[Major Tomahawk]

You don't have to finish a hole if you don't want to, just the full 18 holes with match play scores: like 17-1, 10-8 or even 1-0 in a very closely contested match.