disc flipping over on me

[attik34]

So the last 2 times i've gone out to work on throwing i've had this issue of my discs wanting to flip over ... by that I mean throwing RHBH the wing side of the disc goes up and then stabilizes there and the disc goes way right (throwing a leopard) i have to FORCE a super hyzer?(wing down) for it to go to flat and carry...is this normal? what should i do to fix it?

I dont have a video to post as I don't have a camera to do so...What I can tell you about the disc flight is when i throw "normal" it comes out clean and then turns up and goes right hard...when i put the wing way down it comes out fluttering alot and stabalizes at flat and carries pretty decent. Doing that seems to give me more distance than i had before, but I have been making alot of improvements as far as using my momentum and body with my throw so that make have something to do with it.

 

[mudslinger]

So the last 2 times i've gone out to work on throwing i've had this issue of my discs wanting to flip over ... by that I mean throwing RHBH the wing side of the disc goes up and then stabilizes there and the disc goes way right (throwing a leopard) i have to FORCE a super hyzer?(wing down) for it to go to flat and carry...is this normal? what should i do to fix it?

I dont have a video to post as I don't have a camera to do so...What I can tell you about the disc flight is when i throw "normal" it comes out clean and then turns up and goes right hard...when i put the wing way down it comes out fluttering alot and stabalizes at flat and carries pretty decent. Doing that seems to give me more distance than i had before, but I have been making alot of improvements as far as using my momentum and body with my throw so that make have something to do with it.

you're using a leopard? maybe something a bit more stable would help. or going to a longer range driver instead of a fairway driver. what else are you throwing that exhibits this behavior?

 

[attik34]

you're using a leopard? maybe something a bit more stable would help. or going to a longer range driver instead of a fairway driver. what else are you throwing that exhibits this behavior?

all my non putter discs are doing this, so Roc, Comet, Shark.

I really dont wanna go to a longer range because, i dont have longer range ...I'm TOPPING out at like 240 ft and prolly more consistant around 200-210 when I throw it straightish

 

[Stud Muffin]

So the last 2 times i've gone out to work on throwing i've had this issue of my discs wanting to flip over ... by that I mean throwing RHBH the wing side of the disc goes up and then stabilizes there and the disc goes way right (throwing a leopard) i have to FORCE a super hyzer?(wing down) for it to go to flat and carry...is this normal? what should i do to fix it?

I dont have a video to post as I don't have a camera to do so...What I can tell you about the disc flight is when i throw "normal" it comes out clean and then turns up and goes right hard...when i put the wing way down it comes out fluttering alot and stabalizes at flat and carries pretty decent. Doing that seems to give me more distance than i had before, but I have been making alot of improvements as far as using my momentum and body with my throw so that make have something to do with it.

Ok, now you are about to learn another important lesson in disc golf.

Whenever you throw 'into' a headwind, it makes the disc fly less stable, aka flip over. In those situations, you need to throw a more stable disc, be it a Teebird/Eagle, etc. And a MASSIVE headwind, even a Banshee or a Firebird.

Now, in a Tailwing, discs fly more stable, so the Leopard should have a stronger flight in those situations.

Try it out! :thmbup:

 

[mudslinger]

all my non putter discs are doing this, so Roc, Comet, Shark.

I really dont wanna go to a longer range because, i dont have longer range ...I'm TOPPING out at like 240 ft and prolly more consistant around 200-210 when I throw it straightish

i think your problem is that you are putting too much spin on the disc compared to the distance it needs to go, which is causing it to flip. You should easily be able to throw 300+ if you're already flipping discs over. You've clearly got the spin, but can't get the forward momentum to match. Or maybe you're starting your disc off too flat in your release and you need to hyzer it more (hyzer-flip shot).

I guess I don't have this problem as I don't mind keeping discs on anny lines...for me it's about keeping the right height to give the disc plenty of space to turn back to the left when it slows down. maybe that will work for you also.

 

[Oklahyzer]

What these guys have said about wind, hyzer angles, etc, is accurate with good from, but from your description and distances, I'm thinking you have some oat/form issues that are causing it to flip. Unless your Leopard is just beat all to heck. What plastic/weight/condition is it? Really though, sounds like form and if there's any way you can get a video, you can get some good help here (they're also really helpful just to watch yourself...many of us don't look/throw the way it feels like we do).

In the meantime, maybe a refresher on basics like grip/wrist position and the importance of shoulder/hip/arm planes being aligned will help you. The stickies here and on DGR are excellent.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are torquing the disc over somewhere in your throw:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/technique/bhproblemsline.shtml#nohyzer



Also should work on snap.

 

[attik34]

What these guys have said about wind, hyzer angles, etc, is accurate with good from, but from your description and distances, I'm thinking you have some oat/form issues that are causing it to flip. Unless your Leopard is just beat all to heck. What plastic/weight/condition is it? Really though, sounds like form and if there's any way you can get a video, you can get some good help here (they're also really helpful just to watch yourself...many of us don't look/throw the way it feels like we do).

In the meantime, maybe a refresher on basics like grip/wrist position and the importance of shoulder/hip/arm planes being aligned will help you. The stickies here and on DGR are excellent.

the leopard is brand new...dx...150....If i luck out in 2 months i'll have a new phone with a HD cam and I'll be able to do something..Until then I'll try to figure something out about getting a vid up...I'd agree that i think its form related...and not so much me releasing too flat...i see the disc come out hyzer and flip over and turn right....I havent been playing long enough to really claim I know anything about form so yeah lol

 

[notroman]

i think your problem is that you are putting too much spin on the disc compared to the distance it needs to go, which is causing it to flip. You should easily be able to throw 300+ if you're already flipping discs over. You've clearly got the spin, but can't get the forward momentum to match. Or maybe you're starting your disc off too flat in your release and you need to hyzer it more (hyzer-flip shot).

I guess I don't have this problem as I don't mind keeping discs on anny lines...for me it's about keeping the right height to give the disc plenty of space to turn back to the left when it slows down. maybe that will work for you also.

Actually, spin would keep the discs more stable. Assuming the OP doesn't have any OAT issues, it's actually lack of spin that would cause the discs to turn. Too much arm speed. At least at the distances the OP is talking about. Turn from snap comes in really late in the flight, turn from lack of snap and too much arm comes almost immediately.

I would work on not accelerating until the disc gets to your chest area (just keep the pull slow and steady leading up to the chest), and focus on following through on a level plane.

 

[Alin]

I would think that a 150g dx leopard could take one or 2 hits and become a flippy disc for just about anybody!! Throw in some of the other factors mentioned and it's very predictable that it'd flip.

 

[notroman]

At 200 feet power the Leopard has to be pretty beat, even at 150g, to flip from a hyzer.

The OP also mentioned that all his discs do that, including his Roc, Comet, and Shark. I'm still thinking it's just not enough snap for the arm speed given, and/or following through on a different plane from the initial pull.

 

[sidewinder22]

the leopard is brand new...dx...150....If i luck out in 2 months i'll have a new phone with a HD cam and I'll be able to do something..Until then I'll try to figure something out about getting a vid up...I'd agree that i think its form related...and not so much me releasing too flat...i see the disc come out hyzer and flip over and turn right....I havent been playing long enough to really claim I know anything about form so yeah lol

It's rare I'll give disc advice in here, but a 150 DX Leopard is going to be pretty touchy regardless of form. If you like 150 class I'd go with a Champ or Star Leopard and work on your form with those.

 

[Triflusal]

It's rare I'll give disc advice in here, but a 150 DX Leopard is going to be pretty touchy regardless of form. If you like 150 class I'd go with a Champ or Star Leopard and work on your form with those.

yeah i was about to say. A 150 gram DX leopard is not gonna give consistent feedback on form

 

[Oklahyzer]

Actually, spin would keep the discs more stable. Assuming the OP doesn't have any OAT issues, it's actually lack of spin that would cause the discs to turn. Too much arm speed. At least at the distances the OP is talking about. Turn from snap comes in really late in the flight, turn from lack of snap and too much arm comes almost immediately.

I would work on not accelerating until the disc gets to your chest area (just keep the pull slow and steady leading up to the chest), and focus on following through on a level plane.

Thanks for explaining that...I saw it but wasn't sure if it would matter to the OP or not, and really didn't want to take the time to correct the misinformation.

Attik, check out the vid that Sidewinder posted...it's really a pretty good one. Alignment is very important and a base for good form. When you release with alignment, you'll feel it in your body....when you're twisted out of plane, you'll also feel it in your body, but not in a good way - and the disc will fly craptastic unless it's fast/overstable and can recover from the abuse. Also read up about grip and wrist alignment, and wrist rolling. Those matter just as much. If you can work on one or both of those areas, you'll see your distance increase and the flight of the discs will start acting more true to design...added benefits of more control on breezy days.

 

[garublador]

At 200 feet power the Leopard has to be pretty beat, even at 150g, to flip from a hyzer.

Yeah,with clean form you should be able to throw a 150g Leopard on a pure hyzer at 200' without too much trouble. I know I've thrown a beat 170g DX Leopard 300' on a pure hyzer into a 5-10mph headwind and I'm not that good. It's not some superhuman feat.

I'll agree that a light DX Leopard probably isn't the best all around learning tool, though. It's good for OAT elimination, but not for learning how to throw farther.

 

[attik34]

At 200 feet power the Leopard has to be pretty beat, even at 150g, to flip from a hyzer.

The OP also mentioned that all his discs do that, including his Roc, Comet, and Shark. I'm still thinking it's just not enough snap for the arm speed given, and/or following through on a different plane from the initial pull.

Tell me more about this...would following through to high or too low be the cause of whats going on?

 

[Jtrain]

I dont know bout the leopard I know when the beast got way to beat in for me that I could bend it like a super soft plastic but it got way to flippy on me and would keep on turning over on me.

 

[Oklahyzer]

Tell me more about this...would following through to high or too low be the cause of whats going on?

It's more likely some torque - oat - that results in a non-clean release, which results in a lightweight semi-flippy disc mold wanting to dive much earlier than it should. The height of follow-through should be dependent on the aligned planes of your hips and shoulders, and for the most part that's not going to be the cause of flipping and burning (assuming the disc isn't just soooo beat up and the wind isn't a big factor).

If you're aligned well, then there could still be issues with nose angle, amount of spin, and/or allowing your wrist to turn over one way or the other when you release. Higher spin rates will increase stability somewhat...sometimes enough to allow a torqued disc to recover a little. If your wrist tends to roll under (palm up) when the disc leaves your hand, then you're imparting torque that way, and that's probably the biggest reason that discs burn out early. This can be from inattention or a weak wrist/grip, or it can be from misalignment in those body planes...or both.

True, a light dx leopard is going to be a bit sensitive, but with clean form it'll still do very well, shouldn't burn out so quickly, and can go much, much farther than you're getting it. A more stable disc is a quick fix, but doesn't solve the problem of proper form.

 

[emiller3]

Tell me more about this...would following through to high or too low be the cause of whats going on?

Early turn is definitely a sign your velocity overcoming your snap. Your follow through height doesn't have much to do with this.

However, if you're throwing 200' and turning Rocs hard, OAT (wrist roll) is more likely the culprit. I doubt you are turning them by velocity alone, you would have to be throwing farther to do that.

I wouldn't go by that ultimate video for alignment tips, ultimate is different from disc golf in that regard. Among other things, you definitely want your weight forward, don't want your wrist cocked against your forearm, and will need to be able to vary your angle of release.

EDIT: Oops, Oklayzer beat me to it.

 

[sidewinder22]

It's more likely some torque - oat - that results in a non-clean release, which results in a lightweight semi-flippy disc mold wanting to dive much earlier than it should. The height of follow-through should be dependent on the aligned planes of your hips and shoulders, and for the most part that's not going to be the cause of flipping and burning (assuming the disc isn't just soooo beat up and the wind isn't a big factor).

If you're aligned well, then there could still be issues with nose angle, amount of spin, and/or allowing your wrist to turn over one way or the other when you release. Higher spin rates will increase stability somewhat...sometimes enough to allow a torqued disc to recover a little. If your wrist tends to roll over (palm up) when the disc leaves your hand, then you're imparting torque that way, and that's probably the biggest reason that discs burn out early. This can be from inattention or a weak wrist/grip, or it can be from misalignment in those body planes...or both.

True, a light dx leopard is going to be a bit sensitive, but with clean form it'll still do very well, shouldn't burn out so quickly, and can go much, much farther than you're getting it. A more stable disc is a quick fix, but doesn't solve the problem of proper form.

FTFY. Have you ever thrown a 150 dx leo?