Disc speeds over 12. Is it necessary?

[AzteC]

When you look at players like McBeth or Lizotte, the only max distance driver they use is (in tournament competition) a speed 12. Destroyer/PD2. These guys obviously have cannons, but you don't see them throwing faster discs like a Boss or the DD series.

Then you have these companies that are making 13 and even 14 speed drivers. Are these discs just meant to add distance for people with 350' power? In theory dont you have to throw faster discs harder to get them to fly as described/designed therefore rendering the point of adding distance to less powerful players pointless? Why do the top players avoid the "fastest discs"? Maybe its a control thing, as discs at the top end of the speed range tend to be more understable.

Thoughts?

 

[BirdieMachine]

PD2 is really a 13 anyways with a 2.4 rim which is the same as an Ape. The whole speed thing is overrated when talking about these small differences anyways I think.

Also I think that a Destroyer is just more comfortable in hand and can run tighter lines then say a Boss while giving up just a little distance. When playing on the course it's not how far it's how many.

 

[Pbmercil]

When you look at players like McBeth or Lizotte, the only max distance driver they use is (in tournament competition) a speed 12. Destroyer/PD2. These guys obviously have cannons, but you don't see them throwing faster discs like a Boss or the DD series.

Then you have these companies that are making 13 and even 14 speed drivers. Are these discs just meant to add distance for people with 350' power? In theory dont you have to throw faster discs harder to get them to fly as described/designed therefore rendering the point of adding distance to less powerful players pointless? Why do the top players avoid the "fastest discs"? Maybe its a control thing, as discs at the top end of the speed range tend to be more understable.

Thoughts?

As with anything, your mileage may vary. I find anything with larger then a 2.3 cm rim to give me an inconsistent release. So any theoretical distance gain is negated by an inconsistent grip. So I throw destroyers and xcals and gave up on the 2.5 rims years ago.

The speed classification system is kind of a mess. Innova has a bunch of different rim sizes classified as speed 12 and 13. Anything from a 2.2 to a 2.5 will be a 12 or a 13 for no real reason (sometimes even an 11).

Other manufacturers speeds are actually better. Trilogy plastic uses a consistent speed to wing size classification. 2.2 = 12 2.3= 13 2.4=14 2.5=15. It's a better system. But it breaks down when comparing the 2 companies. A boss would be a trillogy speed 15, trilogy drivers could land anywhere on the innova 12/13 scale.

All of that is to say I much prefer looking at wing size, not arbitrary manufactures ratings that don't compare across brands.

Speed sells. Big fat wing drivers are sexy and people gobble them up. Weather or not they are of any tangible benefit for you is up to you to decide for yourself. I know plenty of people who throw the bosses and nukes who are great golfers but it's not for me.

 

[JC17393]

When you look at players like McBeth or Lizotte, the only max distance driver they use is (in tournament competition) a speed 12. Destroyer/PD2. These guys obviously have cannons, but you don't see them throwing faster discs like a Boss or the DD series.

Then you have these companies that are making 13 and even 14 speed drivers. Are these discs just meant to add distance for people with 350' power? In theory dont you have to throw faster discs harder to get them to fly as described/designed therefore rendering the point of adding distance to less powerful players pointless? Why do the top players avoid the "fastest discs"? Maybe its a control thing, as discs at the top end of the speed range tend to be more understable.

Thoughts?

I think you hit on the all the reasons that they both make speed 13+ discs and why the top players tend not to use them. If a player can throw an 11/12 speed disc upwards of 500 feet, what is a little additional speed going to get them? What marginal distance gain they might see from a faster disc is mitigated by the potential drop in control. There are so few opportunities where anyone needs to throw a 500+ foot golf shot anyway, but even of those that exist, these guys don't have to throw that far to still play a hole with that kind of length well.

But the highest speed drivers still have a use, even for good players. I look at it this way. The best players, the McBeths and Wysockis of the world, are good at throwing accurately at a long range. They can attack an 800 foot hole with a pair of well placed ~400 foot throws (maybe with something slower than an 11/12 speed) and have a putt in the circle for three. Mere mortals, and I'm talking some 980-1000ish rated players too, might be able to power up a pair of ~400 foot shots but with less accuracy that might still leave them 40-50+ feet away from the basket for three. But if they throw a faster disc and maybe get their drive out to 450+, that can shorten the approach to the basket enough that they are more in their wheelhouse for an accurate shot. maybe with a fairway or midrange shot instead of another driver.

Bottom line though is that speed sells. Faster = further, or at least that's how these discs are marketed. I get newer players all the time in my store that want "the fastest disc". Some are even knowledgeable enough to say "what do you have in a speed 13?" when they come in. They have no place trying to throw a speed 13 at their skill level, but their speed 11 driver just isn't going far enough for them, so obviously a speed 13 will. Never mind that they don't have the skill yet to get the most out of either disc. But that doesn't stop them. And when a company comes out with a speed 16 or 17...they'll buy that one too.

 

[depster]

Technically Lizotte does throw a Boss. Just only in the desert.

 

[Reniger]

Feldy throws some 14s. (King/World) I believe hearing a rumor of Nikko joining that bandwagon. But, those are just silly anyway.

 

[Pbmercil]

In theory dont you have to throw faster discs harder to get them to fly as described/designed therefore rendering the point of adding distance to less powerful players pointless?

Kind of. All things being equal, yeah. But now we have a bunch of light weight understable high speed drivers. Tho a weaker armed player may not be getting those "up to speed" they will still probably go farther for them than Anything else

 

[Peter S]

The size of my hand determines. I do not like to back hand over a speed 12 disc as I dont get a proper grip. I do like some speed 13 discs Nukes, Apes for forehand.

 

[Old Dog]

Not for me. I've got a tired old noodle arm and creaky old back so I really don't see any improvement in distance beyond speed 10. I get nearly the same distance from my mids and lo-speed fairway drivers as I do from my hi-speed "distance" drivers with a lot better control.

 

[Jensonian]

Disc speeds over 12. Is it necessary?
No.

 

[ThrowBot]

Obligitory:
Back in my day, the speed scale only went up to 10! And you were lucky if you could find a speed 10, b'cause it was the Great Depression and bread only cost a nickel!

**hikes trousers up past belly button a shuffles away aimlessly, complaining under breath about the Carter administration**

 

[Pbmercil]

Obligitory:
Back in my day, the speed scale only went up to 10! And you were lucky if you could find a speed 10, b'cause it was the Great Depression and bread only cost a nickel!

**hikes trousers up past belly button a shuffles away aimlessly, complaining under breath about the Carter administration**

Lol. We did love our orcs and beasts!

 

[ThrowBot]

Lol. We did love our orcs and beasts!

Yeah, but do you remember when the Wraith came out? Mind blowing!

 

[youdidwell]

If throwing a disc with a speeding rating of over 12 helps your score, I would say it is necessary.

All disc ratings are just general info based on whatever the manufacture wants to say with no exact system. Depends on the thrower. If it helps your game use it.

 

[AzteC]

Technically Lizotte does throw a Boss. Just only in the desert.

Hence why I said "In tournament competition" in parenthesis.

 

[kerplunk]

I am surprised no one has mentioned skip shots yet. In general wider rim= more skip, so the ultra high speed drivers can be useful for huge skip shots. But even here, the control with a Destroyer of Firechicken usually outweighs the slightly bigger skip of a Boss or Ape (I am Innova-centric, deal with it ).

 

[mentos]

I wish I had a better answer. My hands are med/large in size and I kinda prefer the 13s in trilogy plastic .

I just like that 2.3+ grip I have.

 

[drive4showput4dough]

Cannon is the longest disc on the market. I am more consistent with outlaws, so I cycle those, and agree with the post speed 12 is the best compromise, but when its pure D... My furthest throws have always come from a cannon.

 

[eegor]

The only time I use 12 or 13 speed drivers is in the wind or utility shots I want a lot of skip on. I have a noodle arm and can throw an Ascent (accurately) almost as far as a Lace (not so accurate), so...

 

[Stable]

It's all about finding your own limitations. I bagged a Destroyer/Tern combo for about a year and have ultimately decided that I get the most consistent max distance from Speed 11 drivers (Wraith/Insanity). I'm not full of fast twitch muscles like McBeth and Lizotte. Slow down!