Do you have to throw? [water hazard, lost disc]

[DiscFifty]

Let's say there's a water hazard that you can't clear (or don't want to try because your disc will be gone OR it might land in a spot that is hazardous to attempt to get the disc. (deep cliffs, slippery banks, etc)

There is a drop zone if your disc doesn't clear the hazard. Can you elect to not throw and just take a penalty and throw from the drop zone? I've always wondered about this question and none of the pros I talked to this weekend knew the answer. Thx.

 

[DavidSauls]

By default, no. But it depends on the how the TD as worded the rule.

Your question states that the drop zone is for throws that don't clear the hazard. If worded that way, you could just drop your tee shot in front of the tee ("hasn't cleared the hazard") and proceed. A TD could word it that way, declaring all land on the tee side of the water as O.B. and subject to drop zone relief; depending on the hole, it might be wise to do so.

If not worded that way, there should be a way to play around the water, perhaps at a cost of several strokes.

 

[PhattD]

I don't believe that there is a rule that automatically allows you to do that. I think it is up to the TD to invoke a special rule that allows you to just tee from the drop zone throwing three at your discretion. Even if that's not allowed, if everything short of the hazard is also OB, you could just toss your tee shot off the end of the pad and be OB without losing a disc.

But again I don't know for sure.

Doh!! got beat lol ^^^

 

[Cgkdisc]

No default rule. But good designers are recommending that option when there are required water carries such as the Steady Ed course at the IDGC. On a few water holes, you may proceed to the short Red tee (which is the drop zone) and start there making your third throw. I've also seen TDs mark a small area OB right by the tee where the player can toss the disc there and proceed to the drop zone without risking their disc crossing a big water hazard.

 

[mark996]

A TD that runs our local large A-Tier did that last year, marked an area OB just to the right of the teepad, so you could toss your disc there, then proceed to the DZ. The added hole is only a tournament hole in the park.

 

[Steve West]

Should the rules be changed so that the player can always choose to take the penalty and use the drop zone without throwing?

 

[JC17393]

Should the rules be changed so that the player can always choose to take the penalty and use the drop zone without throwing?

Why? As this thread has already demonstrated, there are reasonable work-arounds that can be employed by a conscientious TD.

There's no reason to change the rules to account for something that is only going to be an issue for a small percentage of any given tournament field on maybe 1 in 100 courses. Really, this is more of a course design issue than a rules issue.

 

[mark996]

Yeah I don't think so. Most TDs have the right mind when coming to throwing over water and new players. Most will have a drop zone as mentioned, and intermediate and recreation divisions throw from it to start, no penalty obviously. Advanced and open throw from tee across the water.

 

[scarpfish]

I don't think the PDGA has to mandate it, but I think any conscientious TD should allow players to take an auto-drop and not be forced to sacrifice their plastic. There's generally enough peer pressure at hand to steer players away from that option.

 

[DavidSauls]

Should the rules be changed so that the player can always choose to take the penalty and use the drop zone without throwing?

Among other things, this would entail complications on a hole where the 2nd or 3rd shot faces water.

If the hole design is that the drive approaches water, and---if good---the second shot goes over the water, an automatic "proceed to drop zone with penalty" rule wouldn't work. Someone could take advantage of it off the tee, or if their drive was so bad that their second shot is also a layup.

 

[araytx]

Let's say there's a water hazard that you can't clear (or don't want to try because your disc will be gone OR it might land in a spot that is hazardous to attempt to get the disc. (deep cliffs, slippery banks, etc)

There is a drop zone if your disc doesn't clear the hazard. Can you elect to not throw and just take a penalty and throw from the drop zone? I've always wondered about this question and none of the pros I talked to this weekend knew the answer. Thx.

Dave, you've gotten a lot of good comments here, and most have to do with having a good TD for the tournament. It's not automatic, but a good TD will have an option of some sort, especially considering the differing levels of players in the tournament from Novice/Rec/Women/Juniors to MPO. If the hole is designed with a forced water carry (or forced crazy woods carry), then there should be such an option. There are holes, for example, where it's not a true "forced" carry. Say the water is 375' to clear off the tee, but there's no water for the first 50-100'. Or perhaps there is another safe "bailout zone" but not along the line of play from the tee. Those designs give the player choices. The player could lay up and then try a more manageable 325' shot, with or without the forced carry. I don't think it should be a rule to require the "straight to the drop zone option", but if not that, then there should be some option.

 

[DiscFifty]

Good stuff, and a very interesting read. Thanks for all the comments.