File a complaint?

[Vonbeezy1]

Is it possible to file a complaint with the PDGA about a tournament director if there were multiple things about his tournament that people complained about? Or is it one of those things that you would just avoid his tournaments in the future? A few examples from his tournament are- 1.The entry fee was $35 for most and you got a beanie as your players pack if you registered before x amount of other players, if not no players pack at all. 2. Very poorly defined O.B. such as if you were completely surrounded by water you were ob but if you landed in the middle of the water and were on some pebbles you were in bounds. 3. You had to drive to the TD's pro shop to collect payout which was over a 40 minute drive out of most peoples way including going there and back.

Note- MANY people complained about the issues at this tournament.
Am I making too big of a deal out of this? Should I report to pdga? Avoid tournaments?

 

[Jay Dub]

I think you should avoid all tournaments if this is what you want to complain to the PDGA about.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Did he payout in plastic or prize vouchers? I think the making people drive to his shop is kinda obviously an attempt to get people in his shop to buy stuff. Which isn't always a bad thing but a 40min drive from the course is a bit much.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

He paid out in vouchers

 

[Raging Tide]

I'm going to comment, but want to be clear that I have not been able to attended any sanctioned event this year.

Is it fair for the TD to order an amount of custom items just to be sure that everyone gets one? What does he do with all the extras? If he is clear that only a certain amount is available and that amount is a decent number that should be acceptable.

water and ob is always questionable, I agree that it should be clearly defined if there is any casual water


it isnt unusual to have an award ceremony somewhere else. Maybe it isn't convient, but there might be a reason for it.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Most players don't realize there's a PDGA Event Evaluation Form you can submit to the PDGA: http://www.pdga.com/files/EventEvaluationForm_1.pdf

 

[SteezeOG]

If the player pack was limited to the first however many entered or who showed up that is usually in the tournament info ahead of time. If it was a complete surprise to everyone that is maybe reason to never play one of his tournaments again. It seems to be a little lacking for the cost but some beanies run $15-20 retail and about the cost of a premium disc which is kind of average for a player pack.

As long as the OB was laid out clearly in the player meeting I don't see the problem. If it's consistent and everyone is playing by the same OB then you really don't have much to complain about in my opinion. Keep your discs out of it just like usual.

Asking people to redeem vouchers at the shop who is sponsoring it I have no problem with. DD does that all the time here and it's really to the benefit of the player because they can select from everything in the huge retail store selection in Emporia. It's also less than 10 minutes from every course in town so the 40 min drive part is something I would be unhappy about. Round trip that is more in gas than the voucher was probably worth. Still not really something I would say is PDGA complain worthy. Rate the tournament using the link Chuck provided and don't attend any more events this guy has would be my suggestion to you.

 

[JC17393]

Chuck has the right answer with the Event Evaluation form (here's the link again http://www.pdga.com/documents/event-evaluation-form). Fill that out and send it to the PDGA. Or email the tour manager directly (tourmgr @ pdga . com).

As for the specific complaints...
1. It is not uncommon or bad practice to offer a player pack for only the first X participants. If it's tournament specific, it's tough to gauge in advance how many will be needed and should the TD be on the hook for extras? I imagine the idea was to use the player pack as a means of enticing players to sign up in advance. If enough signed up early to exhaust the limited supply, he may have been able to order more. He probably did not exhaust his supply fast enough, hence the limited supply stayed limited.

2. Sounds like they have the wrong idea of what defines OB. Not sure if the PDGA can do anything about ignorance of the rules besides tell the TD he's doing it wrong. I know TDs have to pass a test, but it's so easy (and open book) it doesn't really take much to pass.

3. Vouchers for a store off-location isn't out of the ordinary, especially if the vouchers don't have an expiration (so you can cash it in at your leisure) or if they can be redeemed over the phone or online. But if you had to redeem the vouchers that night or lose out, that's shady. I'm guessing it's more likely the former than the latter though. But again, I'm not sure the PDGA is going to say much about this. What amounts to an inconvenience for you isn't something that they have a lot of authority to change.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

Chuck has the right answer with the Event Evaluation form (here's the link again http://www.pdga.com/documents/event-evaluation-form). Fill that out and send it to the PDGA. Or email the tour manager directly (tourmgr @ pdga . com).

As for the specific complaints...
1. It is not uncommon or bad practice to offer a player pack for only the first X participants. If it's tournament specific, it's tough to gauge in advance how many will be needed and should the TD be on the hook for extras? I imagine the idea was to use the player pack as a means of enticing players to sign up in advance. If enough signed up early to exhaust the limited supply, he may have been able to order more. He probably did not exhaust his supply fast enough, hence the limited supply stayed limited.

2. Sounds like they have the wrong idea of what defines OB. Not sure if the PDGA can do anything about ignorance of the rules besides tell the TD he's doing it wrong. I know TDs have to pass a test, but it's so easy (and open book) it doesn't really take much to pass.

3. Vouchers for a store off-location isn't out of the ordinary, especially if the vouchers don't have an expiration (so you can cash it in at your leisure) or if they can be redeemed over the phone or online. But if you had to redeem the vouchers that night or lose out, that's shady. I'm guessing it's more likely the former than the latter though. But again, I'm not sure the PDGA is going to say much about this. What amounts to an inconvenience for you isn't something that they have a lot of authority to change.

Thank you steeze and jc for serious replies. It appears some of the issues are the norms at tournaments and I'm not used to that.

 

[Kodachrome]

maybe you shouldn't play tournaments if you whine about crap like this.

actually it sounds like kind of a TD who may just not have been as thorough as he should have been, and kind of a poorly run tournament. i'd say the evaluation form is the way to go and let people know about the TD. apparently there's someone around here who is much the same, some people warned me so i didn't go to his tournament. problem solved. word of mouf.

 

[The Hammer]

Avoid playing tournaments if you expect everything to be perfect.

 

[Steve West]

What would you do if the TD was your friend and you helped run the tournament? Do that.

After all, the TD is your friend (you both play disc golf, that's all it takes) and you did help with the tournament (players have as much impact as TDs).

Contact the TD, tell him what you liked and disliked, and offer to help make it better next time. Maybe you could go out and set up OB flags, for example.

At the least, you'll understand why he made the choices he did. I'll bet the reason was not just to make the experience worse.

We're all in this together. There is no 'they" in disc golf.

 

[filobedo]

I have never understand playing a tournament to get a players pack or people complaining about players packs. TDs would probably appreciate help with securing items for players packs but do not always receive volunteers for this function. People that run the majority of tournaments are volunteers and not paid for their efforts but get the most criticism. The payout being 40 miles away is something that I think you should contact the PDGA about for sure. At majors and A Tiers utilizing many courses you are expected to drive a distance due to logistics but this sounds like a local C Tier. I generally play 2 local sanctioned tournaments within 30 miles of where I live each year and the other 10 - 12 are not even close to where I reside. A lot of times I just give my vouchers to kids or noobs so it really would not affect me but for other players I could see this being a problem and a deterrent to receive merchandise won. I am also curious which tournament you are referring to.

 

[emook]

I think you should avoid all tournaments if this is what you want to complain to the PDGA about.

this isn't a "snarky" comment at all. this is pretty much the only answer this thread needed. OB doesn't and shouldn't need to be defined by a TD anyways, thats why PDGA has an official rule book. The rest of your issues are more personal opinions in most ways and don't really break any rules set forth by the PDGA.
players packs are almost always first come first serve in some way or fashion whether its 1 disc is more popular than the other, special stamps, etc. Granted that is lame to not get anything at all, but man i wish tournaments here were only $35

 

[Grungedude42]

I think you should avoid all tournaments if this is what you want to complain to the PDGA about.

Best post of the thread. Also Jay Dub is a cool person IRL, and would have certainly said that, with a straight face and no snark. It's easy to imagine sarcasm in brief posts, but I don't think Jay was being sarcastic here, just blunt.

 

[JC17393]

OB doesn't and shouldn't need to be defined by a TD anyways, thats why PDGA has an official rule book.

Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.

The PDGA rule book defines how a player proceeds after throwing a shot out of bounds, but the rule book has NEVER and will never define where and what out of bounds is. That is absolutely up to the course designer or tournament director to determine. And if the boundaries of an out of bounds area are in question, it is on the TD to clarify those boundaries.

 

[Cgkdisc]

If a special player pack item is limited to say 35 and 40 players enter, the TD is still responsible to provide the other 5 players something of equivalent value as that limited item IF the TD is including the special item as part of the total payout calculation for those divisions. That's especially the case for B-tiers and higher where a player pack with a minimum value is standard for Ams. If it was simply an item donated free by a sponsor and the TD is not including its perceived retail value in the payout then the last five entering are just out of luck.

 

[DavidSauls]

What would you do if the TD was your friend and you helped run the tournament? Do that.

After all, the TD is your friend (you both play disc golf, that's all it takes) and you did help with the tournament (players have as much impact as TDs).

Contact the TD, tell him what you liked and disliked, and offer to help make it better next time. Maybe you could go out and set up OB flags, for example.

At the least, you'll understand why he made the choices he did. I'll bet the reason was not just to make the experience worse.

We're all in this together. There is no 'they" in disc golf.

Someone's polluting this thread with civility.

I say, well done.

 

[DSmith]

If the disc is on some pebbles ,surrounded by water and the ob rule is surrounded by water, wouldn't the disc therefore be ob?

 

[JC17393]

If the disc is on some pebbles ,surrounded by water and the ob rule is surrounded by water, wouldn't the disc therefore be ob?

Generally speaking, yes. Some people have other (erroneous) ideas. Apparently some of them become TDs and make their erroneous rule interpretations official, at least for their events.