[Innova] Firebird - no longer the king?

[ray1970]

So, the Firebird has always had a reputation for being an over stable, trustworthy, wind fighting disc. Even those without big arms could trust it as a utility type disc.

I had a champion Firebird that was super flat and flew very true to the numbers. I lost it recently on a bad thumber near a creek. Went to one of the local shops to find a replacement and picked the one with the least amount of dome and the highest parting line height. Needless to say this thing is very disappointing.

I know comparing wing height between different molds isn't a real direct correlation but I did find these comparisons interesting.

Here is picture of the Firebird (yellow) alongside one of my more mellow Felons.

And here it is alongside a Streamline Flare. My previous Firebird had a very similar profile to the Flare. The Flare is going back in the bag for now.

 

[elmexdela]

put it up next to an actual firebird

 

[ray1970]

put it up next to an actual firebird

Deal. Any idea (other than the creek I mentioned) where I can find an actual Firebird?

 

[twistedraven]

Maybe I'm just not worthy, but I've always preferred the mellower and grippier Sexton firebirds over any regular champion or FAF champion firebirds. Sexton firebirds are still overstable enough for all my utility needs, but I find them more workable than something as meathooky as a FAF Firebird or Streamline Flare.

If pure beef is what you want (outside of a Tilt), then yeah the Streamline Flare is hard to beat, but after bagging one for months, I didn't find it nearly as useful as a Sexton Firebird.

Felons have always had higher PLH and flatter tops than Firebirds, but I've never found them to be more overstable.

 

[ray1970]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but the beefier the disc the better it works for my overhand shots. The disc carries farther for me before flipping. I actually bag Felons for normal throws because they are more manageable and workable for me but I keep one really overstable disc just for thumbers and funky forehand anhyzer flex shots and forehand rollers.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Maybe I'm just not worthy, but I've always preferred the mellower and grippier Sexton firebirds over any regular champion or FAF champion firebirds. Sexton firebirds are still overstable enough for all my utility needs, but I find them more workable than something as meathooky as a FAF Firebird or Streamline Flare.

If pure beef is what you want (outside of a Tilt), then yeah the Streamline Flare is hard to beat, but after bagging one for months, I didn't find it nearly as useful as a Sexton Firebird.

Felons have always had higher PLH and flatter tops than Firebirds, but I've never found them to be more overstable.

Agree with the Felon, It's a little shallower feeling too. I noticed it wasn't as beefy as it looks. I think the Pioneer is a better FB comparison actually. Better disc then the Felon for me anyways. More comfy in the hand.

As far as recent FB's being mellow, just wait six months you might get some beefier plastic run (how it molds up).

 

[dehaas]

I've always used the 2 firebird approach, a flatter one and a more traditional and workable one.

My flatter one is weird and doesn't skip a ton because it comes in on a more vertical angle, which is useful at times.

For some reason I've clicked more with the pd than the fb on overhand shots. I really like to manipulate the release angle and amount of follow through to hit different lines, pd just seems to respond better. I've always had a much better tomahawk than thumber though, so depending on distance a lot of times I'll take something flippy and throw more of a super high scoober to get the disc to stay over to the right.

 

[Moose33]

There has only been one run of Firebirds since 2017 I'd say was a "real" one, the rest have been real disappointments.

Flare is in my bag too and if they ever come back in stock I'm buying more.

 

[twistedraven]

I do agree the Pioneer is more Firebird than the Felon.

 

[ray1970]

I do agree the Pioneer is more Firebird than the Felon.

I have a Pioneer in my stash. Haven't even thrown it. Might have to drag it out for some field work.

 

[Emoney]

Have you tried not cheating and throwing the disc properly?

 

[wolfhaley]

I hear there'll be some Fairway Disc 3's/Cornhusker's coming out soon. Maybe you'd have some better luck with those.

 

[azplaya25]

I've picked up some F2 star firebirds from the factory store recently and they were stiff, flat, and pure beef.

 

[discerdoo]

Deal. Any idea (other than the creek I mentioned) where I can find an actual Firebird?

In my bag and storage bins.

Stocked up on the flat, pearlies from a few years ago, plus some selected color glows. Life is too short to throw domey Firebirds.

 

[robdeforge]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but the beefier the disc the better it works for my overhand shots. The disc carries farther for me before flipping. I actually bag Felons for normal throws because they are more manageable and workable for me but I keep one really overstable disc just for thumbers and funky forehand anhyzer flex shots and forehand rollers.

once they're more widely available I'd recommend checking out the discmania splice. very overstable but not unworkably so

 

[Three Putt]

once they're more widely available I'd recommend checking out the discmania splice. very overstable but not unworkably so

I think the "unworkably so" is the overstable these torque monkeys are looking for. :|

Not that I'm judging or anything. Everybody loves a meathook some days.

 

[Moose33]

I think the "unworkably so" is the overstable these torque monkeys are looking for. :|

Not that I'm judging or anything. Everybody loves a meathook some days.

Lol I felt judged.

 

[ray1970]

I think the "unworkably so" is the overstable these torque monkeys are looking for. :|

Not that I'm judging or anything. Everybody loves a meathook some days.

In my defense, I'm not really a torque monkey. A bit of a caveman for my age but definitely a noodle arm. The only use I have for something unworkably overstable is for my overhand shots. Beyond that I don't have a whole lot of use for the beef.

 

[zendragon]

This has always been my problem with Innova. Run to run, they can be very inconsistent. I think the problem is exacerbated more with the current market and everything selling out constantly. It seems manufacturers aren't taking time to ensure proper molding/cooling, and just rushing discs out as fast as they can.

But, yeah, to me, the Firebird has never been the king. I used to love the XXX for that shot, but more recently moved to a Fireball.

 

[Twmccoy]

I haven't thrown any really recent runs of Firebirds, but I've also never been let down by that mold. I like the Firebird because it can be absolutely smashed without fear of flipping. Also, it'll cover distance decently without being a total brick.

I bag a Firebird, a somewhat gummy champion 12X 157g. Despite being so light, this disc has a classic Firebird flight, and does everything I ask of it on the course.

The only Firebird I've ever thrown and was mildly disappointed in was a Sexton glow from (I think) 2017. It had a noticeable amount of turn, and was surprisingly lousy in headwinds.

IMO, the closest thing to a Firebird out now is the Raptor. I've thrown a couple of those and had very similar results. The Raptor won't flip, but can still be hammered on for decent distance.

BTW, with Firebirds I prefer some dome. I want whatever little glide the disc can provide. I don't necessarily need a horribly glideless, dumpy flight.