Flipping putter too much off tee

[Henline]

I hope this is the correct section, just have a quick question to try to solve a problem I'm having. I typically play on a really short wooded course (longest hole is 290') so I've been trying to use my putter off the tee a bit more lately. I seem to be able to get ~185-215' out of it when it doesn't smack a tree from my late release (a different issue).

I have a basic 172g Dart which I'm finding really easy to flip. To counter it I've tried different angles of hyzer so it'll flip up to flat, but I find when I throw it as hard as I can it'll flip over again and tank early or veer into a tree. I try to throw it at a 30-35 degree hyzer, but at max power it's not enough. When I try throwing with more angle it just doesn't seem to want to flip all the way and typically stays on a slight hyzer line. It doesn't flip the 2nd time super fast, but it's pretty fluid in the middle of it's flight.

I'm still relatively new (been playing for about 6 weeks) so it's hard to figure out if it's an issue with me or if it may just be the mold/weight of the disc I'm using. I played with a few random, what seemed to be seasoned, guys a couple days ago and they mentioned it looked pretty cool but that they'd never seen a disc do that.

What could be the possible causes of this? I know I can just disc up to a mid and not have that problem (I can't really flip my mid), but if it's something fixable I'd rather know so I can work on it. Thanks

 

[DikkaD]

Search off axis tourque (OAT).

 

[Dan Ensor]

Dart is a pretty neutral disc that shouldn't flip much over 290'. Definitely not 35*. Unless it's beat to snot. Even then, 35* seems like a lot of flip. My guess is that when you put more hyzer on it, you're not getting the nose down through the apex. You could try a more stable putter (I'd stay away from mids from the sound of it) like an Aviar, Challenger, Wizard, Ion, etc.; they should fly well for you, and resist flipping more than a dart. Ultimately, it's probably a form issue; your hand is probably not tracking around the nose of the disc properly.

 

[ertai]

What is the condition of the putter? If it's new, then somewhere your throwing mechanics are off. It doesn't sound like OAT though. I think including a video of you throwing would get you more helpful comments from other people here.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

sounds like you are working on it the right way and will take time to dial in your timing etc to get a disc to act the same every time-- hell, I cant even do that after years of playing but learning to control the variables as much as possible to get a consistent result is key.

Keep experimenting with various release angles, discs in different stabilities and finding that "one" disc which you can make do everything. It sounds like you are having release issues and without seeing your actual throw its nearly impossible to figure out what needs to change etc.

 

[mashnut]

Take your putter to a field, and learn to throw hyzers. Start at a pretty short distance where you can throw a clean hyzer that doesn't flip up at all. Gradually work on pushing that distance out further, if you see the disc flipping up from that hyzer at any point back off a little and keep working on it. At under 300' the dart is capable of a nice straight flight with a lot less hyzer than you're putting on it, it just takes some work to figure out how to put that power on it cleanly. Focus on keeping your hand and wrist on the same plane through the whole throw, you shouldn't be ending with your palm up when throwing a hyzer.

 

[Henline]

Dart is a pretty neutral disc that shouldn't flip much over 290'. Definitely not 35*. Unless it's beat to snot. Even then, 35* seems like a lot of flip. My guess is that when you put more hyzer on it, you're not getting the nose down through the apex. You could try a more stable putter (I'd stay away from mids from the sound of it) like an Aviar, Challenger, Wizard, Ion, etc.; they should fly well for you, and resist flipping more than a dart. Ultimately, it's probably a form issue; your hand is probably not tracking around the nose of the disc properly.

Would that cause it to fly a little higher than normal as well? It mostly seems to fly between 5.5-6.5'. While it's a newer disc, it is base plastic and I've hit plenty of trees/baskets so it's pretty torn up around the rim. I'll try to pay more attention to that, thanks.

What is the condition of the putter? If it's new, then somewhere your throwing mechanics are off. It doesn't sound like OAT though. I think including a video of you throwing would get you more helpful comments from other people here.

It's new-ish (~4 weeks), but I play 36-54 holes on a heavily wooded course every day or two so it's hit a lot hehe. I figured a video would be most helpful, but I have a basic phone and no camera so no luck there.

sounds like you are working on it the right way and will take time to dial in your timing etc to get a disc to act the same every time-- hell, I cant even do that after years of playing but learning to control the variables as much as possible to get a consistent result is key.

Keep experimenting with various release angles, discs in different stabilities and finding that "one" disc which you can make do everything. It sounds like you are having release issues and without seeing your actual throw its nearly impossible to figure out what needs to change etc.

I really need to get a camera so I can post a clip or two, the guys I play with are really casual and don't know the first thing of what to look for so it's hard to get feedback other than what I can read/see online and recognize myself. I've recognized a lot of my problems and am working on them, but it would definitely help to have the expertise of people who have been playing longer. I'll probably worry more about that when I've fixed some of the more common issues I already know I have.

 

[Henline]

Take your putter to a field, and learn to throw hyzers. Start at a pretty short distance where you can throw a clean hyzer that doesn't flip up at all. Gradually work on pushing that distance out further, if you see the disc flipping up from that hyzer at any point back off a little and keep working on it. At under 300' the dart is capable of a nice straight flight with a lot less hyzer than you're putting on it, it just takes some work to figure out how to put that power on it cleanly. Focus on keeping your hand and wrist on the same plane through the whole throw, you shouldn't be ending with your palm up when throwing a hyzer.

I try to go out to the field every wednesday evening and toss for a bit before ultimate so I'll do this tonight. I know I naturally throw with a bit of hyzer I've been trying to fix, but I didn't even think of throwing my putter out there as well. Thanks

 

[Dan Ensor]

You might also post something on DGCR Meets "Hey, looking for some people to play with that can help with my form in (region, state, w/e)"

Nose angle won't necessarily affect the height, especially on such a deep hyzer. Distance lines are usually very nose down, but thrown 60'+ in the air. I throw nose up to throw a very low line when I need to get 50' or so after going underneath branches. Nose angle will affect flight, but I don't think I could tell you what to look for. ... nose up flight seems to "slide" through the air more to me ... nose down seems to "eat" through the air.


Does your computer have a webcam? That's how I do a lot of my vids (same boat as you, dumb phone)

 

[Henline]

You might also post something on DGCR Meets "Hey, looking for some people to play with that can help with my form in (region, state, w/e)"

Nose angle won't necessarily affect the height, especially on such a deep hyzer. Distance lines are usually very nose down, but thrown 60'+ in the air. I throw nose up to throw a very low line when I need to get 50' or so after going underneath branches. Nose angle will affect flight, but I don't think I could tell you what to look for. ... nose up flight seems to "slide" through the air more to me ... nose down seems to "eat" through the air.


Does your computer have a webcam? That's how I do a lot of my vids (same boat as you, dumb phone)

I think we have one somewhere, but our family desktop is pretty awful. Didn't even think of webcams, might see if my friend will bring my old laptop out sometime when we go since I gave it to her last year. Any particular program you find useful for recording?

 

[Dan Ensor]

I'll be honest; I have no idea when it comes to tech. I use quickplay, or something. Whatever came standard on my laptop. Most of my editting gets done on youtube (mostly just adjusting start and end times). Anything more than that I give my footage to my buddy that knows what he's doing.

When you get around to it, get 2 angles: one from behind looking straight down the line you're throwing on (not necessarily looking straight at the basket) and another perpendicular to the throwing line, showing your chest, not back.

 

[Henline]

Gotcha, I wiped almost everything before I gave it to her so I'll probably have to find something. I'll keep that in mind when I get around to it. Thanks