[Gateway] Gateway Discs AMA

[TKWolverine]

OK. allenhoop. set me up.

I'm 63, an experienced golfer (PDGA #1476) with some shoulder issues. Because of my limited range (300 ft) I seldom throw anything longer than a fairway/control driver. I usually stick with stable or understable discs and I love discs with a lot of grip. I'm also a disc minimalist who likes to keep my bag VERY simple.

If I were to call you at Gateway and order your 5-disc special, what would you put in my box? It's totally your call. Please include type of plastic and weight range, too. Have fun!

 

[ilmcgee]

I'm confused a little bit by the low profile putter lineup. You have the Chief, the Chief OS and the Shaman. Does the Chief have the Wizard wing, the Chief OS a new different wing, and the Shaman the Magic wing? Then you have the Devilhawk and Warspear that have a grooved top. I think the Warspear and Shaman have the same wing; does the Devilhawk use the Wizard/Chief wing? How would they line up most-to-least stable? I've heard that both the Devilhawk and Chief OS are beefy, but I don't know how the rest of them line up stability-wise. Thanks.

Pretty sure you have that right as far as wings go. The Chief OS has its own wing, it is very similiar to a Breaker. As far as stability the OS, to me, is a 2 on lss, I'd rate it 4/2/0/2 overall. It bombs too, definitely a midrange really, not a putter. The Chief is a neutral flier, and a easy to control appraoch disc as it doesn't have a ton of glide either. I haven't thrown the warspear or devilhawk, but from what I've heard it is probably devilhawk, chief os, warspear, chief, and then shaman starting with the most OS.

 

[thechamp]

The devil hawk has the same wing as the chief os the warspear has the shaman wing. The devil hawk and warspear are both very over stable with low glide. IMO they are very close to each other in flight.

 

[rallyguy]

Would either of those be close to a pig in flight?

 

[Pwingles]

Because "Soft" doesn't refer to flexibility like every other manufacturer uses it? It's a poor choice for plastic blend terminology, but it is what it is.

what do soft, super soft, super stoopid soft and medium refer to then if not their flexibility or firmness?

 

[thechamp]

I think the Devil Hawk is close to a Pig stability wise. Its been a few years since I thew a Pig but I think the Devil Hawk is a touch slower. Once the sharp edges wear off of the Devil Hawk it doesn't start to fade immediately and gains a little length.

 

[tbird888]

what do soft, super soft, super stoopid soft and medium refer to then if not their flexibility or firmness?

The plastic blend. I agree it's a poor choice of adjectives for plastic blends, but it's what they use. It's not the first time terms are used poorly/incorrectly, and I guarantee it won't be the last. :shrug:

 

[thechamp]

Would either of those be close to a pig in flight?

Sorry I can't do a good head to head test. I have a few Devil Hawks but my only Pig is an old beat 165 Pro Pig from 2008.

 

[hugheshilton]

The plastic blend. I agree it's a poor choice of adjectives for plastic blends, but it's what they use. It's not the first time terms are used poorly/incorrectly, and I guarantee it won't be the last. :shrug:

The guy who is actually supposed to be speaking for the gateway said earlier in this thread that the S/SS/SSS are supposed to refer to the flex rating only, NOT the plastic blend at all which is why you can have S that is hard and slick or S that is softer (but still stiff).

 

[tbird888]

Are you sure about that? Here's what Gateway's always used to describe their blends. Looks to me like the Soft, Medium, etc describes plastic blend and a number that isn't shared is the flexibility rating for that blend.

 

[allenhoop]

What's the most durable Wizard? Would like to get one in a champ or star type of plastic but have never seen anything like that in stores.

Our premium blend is Evolution plastic. We do carry those, in many different flexes. We also have some tie-dyes that are awesome. PM me if you want some

 

[allenhoop]

Yes, that is the joke. But also, as a past thrower of gateway, i can say that i was pretty put off when ordering from an online retailer when i got several discs stamped and marked as one thing and the flexibility was nowhere close to that.

Variance in runs is part of the business, most of us get that. But when you run a batch of "soft" and they come out with the flexibility of a burrito wrap, and they still get marked soft, how do you defend that?

Can't defend that. I will say that there is no real testing process. If we are running SSS plastic, it's because were putting the SSS recipe into the machine. What comes out depends on a variety of things, but they will all be marked SSS.

 

[BuzzzChief]

Is the PWP plastic something that will be available on a regular basis?

 

[allenhoop]

Kewl idea for a thread, exactly what Gateway needs.

So I have some personal questions: what palstic are your apaches and what is the karma like, new and beat?

We currently have Apaches in S, and Evo plastic. I'm trying to convince them to run some Evo-diamond Apaches, so hopefully those will be coming soon.

The Karma is my favorite mid from Gateway. Low profile and flat, the S-line ones start off overstable, and beat in to straight. Great disc to cycle in your bag, keeping 2 or 3 S ones in different stages of wear will offer you any type of midrange shot you might need (overstable, stable, understable). Evo-karmas are beefy. Not stupid meathook beefy, but straight with strong finish in any wind. The evo plastic maintains consistent flight characteristics throughout it's lifespan. I've had a white evo-karma in my bag now for 6 months or so, and it is just as overstable as it was when I put it in.

 

[allenhoop]

Diamond evo

What is it?

Evo-diamond is our new premium plastic. Its the same material that our friends from Rancho Cucamonga use. We are currently having issues with rim bubbles on the last two runs, and are waiting for a replacement part for our machine.

The first run were assassins, which came out looking beautiful. These had a candy look and feel to them. Gummy and flexible, but durable. Also much more stable than other runs of Assassins.

Two weeks ago we ran some Wizards. These came out feeling great, but had a lot of rim bubbles. Tweaking didn't help, so we scratched that run.

Yesterday we ran some diamond Karma's and they came out great. Still lots of X-outs, so we are not going to run until we get the part replaced.

We still have some stock Evo Diamond Assassins available. This might be the best run of this disc we have ever made.

 

[allenhoop]

OK. allenhoop. set me up.

I'm 63, an experienced golfer (PDGA #1476) with some shoulder issues. Because of my limited range (300 ft) I seldom throw anything longer than a fairway/control driver. I usually stick with stable or understable discs and I love discs with a lot of grip. I'm also a disc minimalist who likes to keep my bag VERY simple.

If I were to call you at Gateway and order your 5-disc special, what would you put in my box? It's totally your call. Please include type of plastic and weight range, too. Have fun!

Ooohhh this is fun.

I would toss in an Evo Apache (overstable fairway), Evo Platinum Assassin (stable to understable fairway), S-Karma (overstable mid), S-Mystic (understable mid), and an SS Wizard.

That should cover everything you'd need for any sort of conditions. I might swap the Wizard out for a Magic, depending on your putting style.

 

[allenhoop]

I'm confused a little bit by the low profile putter lineup. You have the Chief, the Chief OS and the Shaman. Does the Chief have the Wizard wing, the Chief OS a new different wing, and the Shaman the Magic wing? Then you have the Devilhawk and Warspear that have a grooved top. I think the Warspear and Shaman have the same wing; does the Devilhawk use the Wizard/Chief wing? How would they line up most-to-least stable? I've heard that both the Devilhawk and Chief OS are beefy, but I don't know how the rest of them line up stability-wise. Thanks.

I'll start off with the stability chart:

Most overstable
- Devil Hawk
- War Spear
- Chief OS
- Chief
- Shaman
Least overstable

The Chief/Shaman/Chief OS all have the same top with different wings (Chief = Wizard, Shaman = Magic, Chief OS = Devil Hawk)

The Devil Hawk and War Spear have the same top (thumbtrack) with different bottoms (War Spear = Magic, Devil Hawk = Devil Hawk)

 

[allenhoop]

Is the PWP plastic something that will be available on a regular basis?

Yes these will be around for a while. We have a lot in stock right now in a variety of flexes.

 

[Pwingles]

Can't defend that. I will say that there is no real testing process. If we are running SSS plastic, it's because were putting the SSS recipe into the machine. What comes out depends on a variety of things, but they will all be marked SSS.

That is what I assumed. My question would be, why not? Its hardly a 'process', would really only involve the scale they use to determine its flexibility, and then using it once, and marking accordingly, no?

Surely each blend has a target range for its flex rating, but since we know whatever blending and molding process is used isnt reliable for that, a simple one time test of a disc in that batch would be easy I'd think.

 

[allenhoop]

That is what I assumed. My question would be, why not? Its hardly a 'process', would really only involve the scale they use to determine its flexibility, and then using it once, and marking accordingly, no?

Surely each blend has a target range for its flex rating, but since we know whatever blending and molding process is used isnt reliable for that, a simple one time test of a disc in that batch would be easy I'd think.

Agreed that it's not that difficult. The problem is there is no instrument to truly test this at a pace fast enough for our production crew to keep up with. They definitely test a few of them, then end up marking the whole run as that flex, even though the flex will vary from beginning to end of the run, depending on outside conditions.

In my opinion it's better to feel out your putters anyway. Yes it's nice to have a consistent blend of plastic, which we generally do. The softs are always pretty stiff. The issue is, from my understanding, the RFF, SSS, and SS marked putters which tend to have more variability.

We are working daily to improve our processes, including consistency in marking of discs and flex ratings. Your input is much appreciated.