Going the distance

[EllEstar]

Hey DGCR,

Been lurking around here for a couple of months and think it's finally time to seek your expert advice with building my form, mainly backhand but forehand may come in the future as well.

About me

I'm a 29 y/o woman from Iceland, I started playing on June 1st of this year, so I'm less than a week past the 6 month mark, before that I had maybe thrown a frisbee 10 times in my life and played like 30 games of handball, which is the extent of my throwing experience.

I used to be a somewhat competitive powerlifter, I think I still hold some national records in the smaller of our two federations, and I'm also pretty tall with quite long arms.

I play every day in one form or another, unless a combination of cold, wind and snow/rain keeps me inside, whether that's field work, putter rounds, putting practice or scored rounds.

My throws

Putters: 210-270 ft
Mids: 240-300 ft
Fairways: 255-315 ft
Drivers: 270-330 ft
Best ever: 361 ft with a full s-curve, pop-top 151g Vulcan

Form videos

I got a tripod 6 weeks ago and have gotten some decent videos since then, decided to just throw them all up here, each video has 1-3 throws aside from the montage. Obviously the most recent is the closest to my current form, there's one one-step throw in there, rest are all x-step, which I started doing around the time of my earliest video.

All throws are (supposed to be) slight hyzers, or occasionally flat.

5.12: https://youtu.be/Yo_VBozPP_g
30.11: https://youtu.be/nAgIeU-7Isg
24.11: https://youtu.be/VRd5MiT-u7M
13.11: https://youtu.be/h_scFXLt0T8
26.10: https://youtu.be/2r_UxBZAlBU
Montage 26.10 - 5.12: https://youtu.be/Ae_apTKgWZ8

Thank you all in advance, hoping to really elevate my game with the help of the good people here.

 

[lucasgg]

Get balanced on your front leg

https://youtu.be/Mpp7ZFLHK90

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[sidewinder22]

Very nice progress!

Note how Paige stays more forward/lateral in x-step, and stacks/loads more upright on the rear leg/femur and plants with right shoulder loaded back over left knee.

Your rear femur goes too far/early targetward and can't really load back into rear leg, and end up planting with your right shoulder well forward of left knee.

Door Frame Drill, hold onto door frame and move your rear foot targetward away from door frame until your right shoulder is about stacked over it and then drop and leverage your hips striding targetward. Left knee should drive forward under right shoulder.

 

[EllEstar]

Very nice progress!

Note how Paige stays more forward/lateral in x-step, and stacks/loads more upright on the rear leg/femur and plants with right shoulder loaded back over left knee.

Your rear femur goes too far/early targetward and can't really load back into rear leg, and end up planting with your right shoulder well forward of left knee.

Door Frame Drill, hold onto door frame and move your rear foot targetward away from door frame until your right shoulder is about stacked over it and then drop and leverage your hips striding targetward. Left knee should drive forward under right shoulder.

Thanks!

I've been having some real issues just grasping this and it really wasn't clicking with me what sort of a position I should be getting into or how it should feel. Coupled with having to take a few days off driving to baby a golfer's elbow I was developing, I ended up mostly just leaning back more and rounding more, as you can see in the following videos. But working on it at home today - after editing the couple of clips I had and watching them frame by frame - I feel like I get it.

It kind of feels like instead of just turning away from the target I'm torquing my upper body against my lower body during the backswing?

Anyways, it should be relatively mild 15-20 mph winds tomorrow, so I look forward to getting out and throwing some shots and working on this. In the meanwhile I've got a couple of backhand clips. Got some from the side with fairways and then from behind with a putter, midrange, and drivers.




From behind it really looks like I've got a lot of OAT going on, might be because my follow throughs are usually pretty low? Or a rounding issue, maybe? I can really feel it in my putter throws, especially.

I also got a few forehand clips. My forehand is very iffy, I nose up stall like one in every 5-10 power shots and my max distance is around 240-250 on a baby flex line with a mildly overstable driver. Got 12 shots here in total, 6 from the front/side and 6 from behind. First three of each pair are max distance flex lines with straight to mildly overstable 10, 8 and 6 speeds, the next three are with a more controlled form I developed for upshots and hitting gaps with an understable 9 speed and straight to mildly understable mid and putter, attempting to release them on a hyzer.

I decided to make it 0.5x speed 30 fps since it's too long to comfortably frame-skip.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, BH you are still pushing the disc further away from target into the backswing instead of leaving it in place. Your arm yanks back and forth quickly through the top of the backswing/transition, instead of being slow and smooth transition with more delayed swing.

You also start rotating the front side open before you start to plant. In door frame drill let your hips keep turning further back away from target as you stride them forward, so the door frame is pulling your whole body further back into the rear leg going into the plant.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138273

 

[sidewinder22]

FH (and BH) you are leaning back too much on your front leg and in too wide stance.
Start in a narrower stance and stand up on front leg in finish.
Keep your body moving with your arm swing.

 

[Dingus]

I love the vid with the four guys walking up and watching you drive. I think you earned their respect, their heads whipped around and watched your disc flight the whole way :clap:

 

[EllEstar]

Well, I've pretty much been working on

a) Timing the backswing and pull-through
b) Bracing and shifting into it from behind
c) Not pushing the disc too far behind me

For the past month+. And it's been rough going. I feel like I've gained a much better understanding of the brace and throwing a weight helped me a lot. My x-step is getting a bit more compact and controlled. But my backswing timing is still a huge hit or miss, and when it's a miss my bracing gets completely lost and I end up just spinning on my front leg.

I spent a couple of weeks throwing with a pendulum swing, which I feel helped my x-step get more compact, and my timing may have been a little better, but I was rounding and airbouncing like crazy 'cause I was no good at controlling how high the pendulum swung on the backswing.

Anyways, here's a form compilation for January, the last three throws are from yesterday and the best by far, all are steeper hyzers than the rest.

 

[EllEstar]

I love the vid with the four guys walking up and watching you drive. I think you earned their respect, their heads whipped around and watched your disc flight the whole way :clap:

Those are always so satisfying, when you get a good rip just as a group is walking up

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how you pause horizontal motion on the x-step and separate your motions / staccato, so then you rotate all the way back before you get horizontal again to plant front foot. Need to maintain horizontal motion while rotating back and dropping into front foot plant all blended together into one fluid motion - door frame drill.

 

[EllEstar]

Alright, so I've been working on getting a more fluid x-step without the pause and it's been giving me some problems. I went to the pendulum arm for a bit again to try and help me nail it down, my issue with that is I usually end up air skipping it, throwing super nose up or super nose down.

So in the end I watched a few pros frame-by-frame and found a common rhythm to their runup and looked a bit better at how they placed/angled their feet as well, here's pretty much the result, the shorter vid is just from yesterday after doing that the other has a couple of earlier attempts in there as well.




Now after watching those back again and the hammer swing x-step and reading some comment from you, sw, about pushing the disc away from you I feel like I didn't quite get my pendulum right so I might try that some more. I also think my torso is leaning too far forward after my x-step into the brace.

I also finally managed to feel something that made sense from the door-frame drill, that drill has been haunting me for a while. Trying to work it in but not sure I'm there yet.

 

[seedlings]

Looking better. Now time to completely shift your weight to the front leg and press off the ground. This is kind of where I am stuck when bad weather showed up.

 

[sidewinder22]

Alright, so I've been working on getting a more fluid x-step without the pause and it's been giving me some problems. I went to the pendulum arm for a bit again to try and help me nail it down, my issue with that is I usually end up air skipping it, throwing super nose up or super nose down.

So in the end I watched a few pros frame-by-frame and found a common rhythm to their runup and looked a bit better at how they placed/angled their feet as well, here's pretty much the result, the shorter vid is just from yesterday after doing that the other has a couple of earlier attempts in there as well.


Now after watching those back again and the hammer swing x-step and reading some comment from you, sw, about pushing the disc away from you I feel like I didn't quite get my pendulum right so I might try that some more. I also think my torso is leaning too far forward after my x-step into the brace.

I also finally managed to feel something that made sense from the door-frame drill, that drill has been haunting me for a while. Trying to work it in but not sure I'm there yet.

Part of the problem is easier to see from camera behind tee. Your 1st step with right foot is not staggered closed toward left teepad enough across the left foot. Your feet are more inline with each other with pelvis more open to the target, should have pelvis slightly closed with more right butt cheek facing target going into x-step. That opens everything up for the x-step to step/swing behind unimpeded - free wheeling backswing.

So as your feet get tangled you tip over targetward too much and your right shoulder can't swing back further behind your rear knee. I think you might need to push harder or quicker off your right foot going into x-step, so there's more balance and rhythm and gallop. Note how JRay steps to the left tee first and then glides laterally with feet out of the way of each other.


This should help. Video door frame drill. I think your rear foot needs step closer to target in door frame drill so that your left foot is closer under right shoulder.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3691114#post3691114

Note how McBeth and Feldy and Jen Allen really pump forward before going into backswing.

 

[seedlings]

This is embarrassingly helpful. The looks from my kids

 

[EllEstar]

I've spent some time this week just getting used to my timing a little more and thinking about pushing harder off my right leg in the first step. Got field work planned for Wednesday/Thursday where I'm going to be putting more work into the pump.

Part of the problem is easier to see from camera behind tee. Your 1st step with right foot is not staggered closed toward left teepad enough across the left foot. Your feet are more inline with each other with pelvis more open to the target, should have pelvis slightly closed with more right butt cheek facing target going into x-step. That opens everything up for the x-step to step/swing behind unimpeded - free wheeling backswing.

I got a video from behind with a putter, mid and fairway. Mid probably most OS but all are pretty straight. I'm throwing pretty much right at the basket and trying to keep it on a small hyzer. Only throw I was somewhat happy with was the putter throw.

I haven't really filmed much from behind or seen many reviews or pro throws from behind so I don't really know what I'm looking for.

This should help. Video door frame drill. I think your rear foot needs step closer to target in door frame drill so that your left foot is closer under right shoulder.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3691114#post3691114

Absolutely, I think I'm getting it now. Got a couple of angles on film.

 

[sidewinder22]

Door frame drill looks pretty good. You might be a little too maxed out/rear foot just slightly too far away from door frame before you could plant or bounce into front heel. So if you try to plant your heel with your weight you would still get turned back further by door frame, tapping into your front heel and door frame/arm kind of bouncing you back off the heel. Weight shift from behind.




In door frame drill I would relax the left arm/elbow, keep left hand on left thigh. No good reason for the rear elbow to go behind the back and tense, it might be throwing your balance off or being used to counter balance an off balance position.

Note how PP drives her whole leg/center forward balanced on right leg, with left leg kicking forward behind and both arms countering forward opposite the leg. Then on left leg, right arm counters right leg striding/kicking into plant. Her hips are swiveling straight and centered down the line like a ballerina. Your hips are moving more right and left across the tee and your head is too over your toes(and rear arm counters behind you), so your head would be going into the wall in inside swing drill instead of moving into more upright stacked posture.

Frame 1 you seem to be pushing your right knee/hip to the right into the way of the left leg trying to step forward behind.

Frame 2 note how tall and relaxed and centered PP is gliding forward and pivoting back into plant.

Frame 3 note how PP is centered on the heel/ankle/axis of rotation and we can still see her right femur, left arm forward and right shoulder/arm back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogonOY1DoHU#t=40m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5cS9u_Y0w&t=4m32s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuvujcEMLxs#t=1m25s

 

[EllEstar]

Hey, I think it's time to restart this. I stopped because we got terrible seasonal storms, then my camera broke and after all that the competitive season started and I shifted my focus a bit more towards working on my short game, forehand and mental game.

So far this season I've managed to win everything I've competed in aside from one tournament where my timing and my mind went out the window, improve my rating by almost 150 (and averaging a good 35 points above that), improve my distance by about 60-80 ft and gain a lot more control and accuracy with it.

My throws

Putters: 210-270 ft
Mids: 240-300 ft
Fairways: 255-315 ft
Drivers: 270-330 ft
Best ever: 361 ft with a full s-curve, pop-top 151g Vulcan

My throws now

Putters: 220-300 ft
Mids: 270-330 ft
Fairways: 290-350 ft
Drivers: 330-400 ft
Best ever: 432 ft

I'm still struggling to reach a few holes on my local course, however, and my nose angle/height control isn't as good as I'd like. I feel like I'm leaking a lot of power in my lower body and I'm probably doing something wrong with my upper body as well that's resulting in an occasional 5°+ swing in pitch angle.

So here goes, got a side angle of 7 throws yesterday, 5 levels of power, two of which with flat/hyzer variations.

 

[txmxer]

Welcome. You are very athletic.

May be a little premature, but I could see you being competitive in the FPO.

 

[txmxer]

Hey, I think it's time to restart this. I stopped because we got terrible seasonal storms, then my camera broke and after all that the competitive season started and I shifted my focus a bit more towards working on my short game, forehand and mental game.

So far this season I've managed to win everything I've competed in aside from one tournament where my timing and my mind went out the window, improve my rating by almost 150 (and averaging a good 35 points above that), improve my distance by about 60-80 ft and gain a lot more control and accuracy with it.



My throws now

Putters: 220-300 ft
Mids: 270-330 ft
Fairways: 290-350 ft
Drivers: 330-400 ft
Best ever: 432 ft

I'm still struggling to reach a few holes on my local course, however, and my nose angle/height control isn't as good as I'd like. I feel like I'm leaking a lot of power in my lower body and I'm probably doing something wrong with my upper body as well that's resulting in an occasional 5°+ swing in pitch angle.

So here goes, got a side angle of 7 throws yesterday, 5 levels of power, two of which with flat/hyzer variations.

Would you say your full motion throw works better than your stand still?

In standstill you are vertical, kind of stiff, leaning back and the disc is coming out nose up. It looks awkward. Then your full power throws look like a completely different person. I was surprised as I watched the video in the difference.

 

[EllEstar]

Would you say your full motion throw works better than your stand still?

In standstill you are vertical, kind of stiff, leaning back and the disc is coming out nose up. It looks awkward. Then your full power throws look like a completely different person. I was surprised as I watched the video in the difference.

I don't know that it works better or worse; the intention for it is to be a floaty nose up throw that goes like 70-120 ft for the first and 120-180 ft for the second. Neither was really meant as a powerful throw, a "full club" standstill would look different. Comparing the 2nd to 3rd throws they look pretty similar from peak of reachback to follow-through.

But yeah, the full motion throw is absolutely much more dynamic and fluid, and a much more enjoyable throw to me.