Hazard

[robdeforge]

I like what y'all are saying.

But realize that in casual play, people are generally not going to want to follow anything arbitrary such as mandos. Some will some won't. I say this because I play with both tournament types and weekend warriors that don't know or could not care less about the competition rules.

Water OB is pretty obvious, or physical boundaries, but beyond things like that it doesn't sell well in the casual play world

Competitions can make up rules and artificial boundaries because people will accept the challenge.

But, as discussed above it becomes a question of what is watchable. People will accept almost any challenge no matter how ridiculous if they are participating. It's a game, or THE game. But, for watching we want to see things that make sense.

Chuck is big on moderating how punitive the course is for errant throws. I like this a lot. It allows creating a course in areas that don't have all the perfect elements such as trees, while still creating challenge.

All this to say, I'm not a fan of the sand trap bunker or buncr as I'm seeing here.

Is buncr correct? I've never seen that before, but I'm not much of a golfer.

It was really interesting to play with people who started out during the COVID boom who wouldn't play OB/mandos, but did score their rounds and were somewhat competitive between each other. Fast forward to now and they do play with both - at some point, maybe when they thought about playing in tourneys, they changed! So not only do both groups exist but sometimes people move from one to the other lol

 

[txmxer]

It was really interesting to play with people who started out during the COVID boom who wouldn't play OB/mandos, but did score their rounds and were somewhat competitive between each other. Fast forward to now and they do play with both - at some point, maybe when they thought about playing in tourneys, they changed! So not only do both groups exist but sometimes people move from one to the other lol

I was introduced to DG by people that had been playing for some time (years) without having any connection to organized/tournament DG. They are generally okay with the rules if it is stated up front. When something happens that doesn't align with how they play the game, but it is a rule, it is a bit more tenuous. Landing a disc on top of the basket is a good example. We no long play that as a "in", but when I started, the group did and when I said that wasn't correct, it did cause a bit of tension.

 

[_MTL_]

Mandos do not solve safety issues as they do not account for physical error, apathy or ignorance of the mando rule.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I've gotten a waiver for a mandatory casual area for one of my events for years. If it's reasonable, it shouldn't be an issue to get one.

Are you referring to the mounds on the stockade hole at Fairfield?

 

[krupicka]

Are you referring to the mounds on the stockade hole at Fairfield?

Yes.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc:
Are you referring to the mounds on the stockade hole at Fairfield?

Krupicka:
Yes.

This is an example where the PDGA should figure out a way to assign a permanent waiver in the PDGA Course Directory for certain rule alternatives used on a course, so TDs don't have to remember or even recognize they need to get a waiver for each event.

Course design innovations should guide the rules revisions versus the rules constraining innovations that can improve the game, especially those that are less punitive.

 

[Steve West]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc:
Are you referring to the mounds on the stockade hole at Fairfield?

Krupicka:
Yes.

This is an example where the PDGA should figure out a way to assign a permanent waiver in the PDGA Course Directory for certain rule alternatives used on a course, so TDs don't have to remember or even recognize they need to get a waiver for each event.

Course design innovations should guide the rules revisions versus the rules constraining innovations that can improve the game, especially those that are less punitive.

And tournament players would be responsible for finding out about rules in yet another place on-line?

And TD's can grow accustomed to not bothering to check whether something needs a waiver or not?

All for a slightly different lie after they've already thrown where they're not supposed to?

 

[biscoe]

IMO a waiver should remain in effect indefinitely once granted unless the applicable rule or hole changes somehow. Putting it in the PDGA Course Directory on the other hand is a waste of time- does anyone even look at that thing anymore?

 

[Cgkdisc]

And tournament players would be responsible for finding out about rules in yet another place on-line?

And TD's can grow accustomed to not bothering to check whether something needs a waiver or not?

All for a slightly different lie after they've already thrown where they're not supposed to?

My main point is if the next rules update encodes currently waived options as officially available for designers and TDs without waivers needed, temporary waivers for even newer options would only be needed before the next rules update. If it was determined after testing that a waived option wasn't good or didn't work well, it doesn't get incorporated in the next rules update.

 

[Cgkdisc]

IMO a waiver should remain in effect indefinitely once granted unless the applicable rule or hole changes somehow. Putting it in the PDGA Course Directory on the other hand is a waste of time- does anyone even look at that thing anymore?

Where would you post the permanent waiver if not the PDGA Directory? DGCR, UDisc, Course Facebook page?

 

[biscoe]

Where would you post the permanent waiver if not the PDGA Directory? DGCR, UDisc, Course Facebook page?

The same place all other waivers are posted... nowhere. It can go in the Live Scoring notes for the hole which can then be copied from one event to the next. If the TD feels the need then put it on Udisc and/or the tee sign.

 

[_MTL_]

IMO a waiver should remain in effect indefinitely once granted unless the applicable rule or hole changes somehow. Putting it in the PDGA Course Directory on the other hand is a waste of time- does anyone even look at that thing anymore?

If a waiver is approved for a hole, it indirectly is approved for ever.

Just simply forward the approval email back to [email protected] and say "I have another event coming up called EVENT NAME and am requesting this waiver to be approved again" and it will be.

 

[biscoe]

If a waiver is approved for a hole, it indirectly is approved for ever.

Just simply forward the approval email back to [email protected] and say "I have another event coming up called EVENT NAME and am requesting this waiver to be approved again" and it will be.

I don't doubt that an approved waiver will be re-approved. I just don't see the point of having to bother with it at all over and over again. It would be much more efficient for both the PDGA employee doing the approving and the TD requesting it to simply have it remain in effect.

 

[_MTL_]

I don't doubt that an approved waiver will be re-approved. I just don't see the point of having to bother with it at all over and over again. It would be much more efficient for both the PDGA employee doing the approving and the TD requesting it to simply have it remain in effect.

Rules and standards change each year. A permanent approval simply isn't possible.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Rules and standards change each year. A permanent approval simply isn't possible.

Not a good sign that the sport has its act together.

 

[biscoe]

Rules and standards change each year. A permanent approval simply isn't possible.

As I said previously- waiver could/should stand unless the course or rules change.

 

[Steve West]

My main point is if the next rules update encodes currently waived options as officially available for designers and TDs without waivers needed, temporary waivers for even newer options would only be needed before the next rules update. If it was determined after testing that a waived option wasn't good or didn't work well, it doesn't get incorporated in the next rules update.

We know that forcing the lie to move back along the LOP does not work in every case. "Last point" forced relocation of the lie does work in every case.

You'll just have to keep re-applying for that waiver to move a handful of player's lies a little bit.

Or, you could - hear me out, because I know it's crazy - just use the rule as it is in the rule book.

 

[Cgkdisc]

We know that forcing the lie to move back along the LOP does not work in every case. "Last point" forced relocation of the lie does work in every case.

You'll just have to keep re-applying for that waiver to move a handful of player's lies a little bit.

Or, you could - hear me out, because I know it's crazy - just use the rule as it is in the rule book.

There are already options that have been successfully used and shouldn't need a waiver. Just allow TDs and designers to use them without a waiver. Any or all of the OB or Relief Area lie relocation options should be available whether last point IB, Drop Zone, nearest point IB, LOP or previous lie. No problem specifying a default like Last point IB if no other options are provided or physically available.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Not a good sign that the sport has its act together.

Or its just a sign that the sport is relatively young?

How many decades did golf spend in the early half of the 20th century getting its rulebooks moderately stable? And that was after how many centuries of play?