[Innova] I can't believe I bought champion plastic again!

[lovebecause]

So I have a champion sidewinder and it flies nothing like my Avenger SS which because the plastic differences. Otherwise they would fly similarly. I now bought a champion Teebird hoping it would be like star plastic since star plastic was out. The disc is way overstable and it skips like a high speed driver when it lands.I guess I'll just have to get stronger and throw harder

 

[PMantle]

I really try not to buy it.

 

[SD86]

So I have a champion sidewinder and it flies nothing like my Avenger SS which because the plastic differences. Otherwise they would fly similarly. I now bought a champion Teebird hoping it would be like star plastic since star plastic was out. The disc is way overstable and it skips like a high speed driver when it lands.I guess I'll just have to get stronger and throw harder

In many cases, Champion plastic is more overstable than Star. But there are exceptions, including Thunderbirds (my Star ThBird is much more overstable than my McBeth 3x Champ Thunderbird).

Champion plastic does have its good points: for me it's firm, durable, and holds its flight characteristics for a long time (forever for my discs, it seems). My 157g Champion Tern is a great substitute for my 167g Star Tern when the wind is up and/or when I ate my Wheaties that morning (i.e. have more energy in my body).

Last but not least, I have a Champion Sidewinder that is more overstable than my Star Sidewinder; the Champ Sidewinder is like a glide-y Valkyrie that I can really rip on drives with good results. I really like the Champ Sidewinder...

 

[lovebecause]

I finally got the Teebird to fly straight today after working on form and maxing out my power. It still did not glide like I've seen. But as time goes on I may turn to like it quite a bit. It does hook like a disc that I don't have so that is a plus.

 

[runningDoc]

champion plastic is great for fairway drivers that see a lot of woods shots. it takes a while to season, but can be worth it because of the long sweet spot.

it's the reason people pay big money for those 11x champ teebirds and almost just as much for used ones. veeeeerrry long sweet spot.

 

[Reniger]

For some reasons, it totally depends on the mold and the manufacturer. I have Innova discs and Discmania discs both made in Rancho that the Champion/C-Line and Star/S-Line throw totally different. Thunderbirds are more overstable in Star, where Sidewinders are more overstable in Champ. C-Line PDs are more overstable than S-Lines, but C-Line TDs are more understable than S-Line. All the same weight, but different results. Obviously, PLH and "runs" play into this factor. Some runs are more flat topped to some more domey, and some are more firm to some more gummy. But the traditional line of "this type of plastic flies more under/overstable" does not always apply...

 

[ThrowBot]

champion plastic is great for fairway drivers that see a lot of woods shots. it takes a while to season, but can be worth it because of the long sweet spot.

Funny, I have champion fairway/control drivers and star distance drivers...yet I never thought of it this way. You're right, tho. (To be fair, however, my distance drivers see their fair share of tree hits also )

I like star distance drivers because it's nice to have a little more grip on those wider rims. Also, they beat a little faster, which comes in handy when you're trying to replace that perfectly seasoned driver. I lose Wraiths from time to time, but it seems like I never lose my fairways.

 

[SD86]

For some reasons, it totally depends on the mold and the manufacturer. I have Innova discs and Discmania discs both made in Rancho that the Champion/C-Line and Star/S-Line throw totally different. Thunderbirds are more overstable in Star, where Sidewinders are more overstable in Champ. C-Line PDs are more overstable than S-Lines, but C-Line TDs are more understable than S-Line. All the same weight, but different results. Obviously, PLH and "runs" play into this factor. Some runs are more flat topped to some more domey, and some are more firm to some more gummy. But the traditional line of "this type of plastic flies more under/overstable" does not always apply...

I generally agree with this. Maybe I need to try a C-Line TD, as I was never really happy with my S-Line TD.

Also, I have two C-Line FDs, both Factory Seconds. Both are also more understable than my two S-Line FDs. All are good discs, though.

 

[elmexdela]

I started a thread a few years ago about sidewinder variations. They are all over the board, and you cannot guess what its going to fly like.

Or even if its going to be a SW or a valk. Yes it directly happened to me where a disc was marked SW and was clearly a valk and innova customer service did nothing about it.

I refuse to buy anything from innova since that incident.

Today someone throw a beefy roadrunner that looked like a thunderbird in flight. The person who just bought that disc was upset it wasnt flippy. I just told him "yup sounds like an innova problem"

 

[jskew113]

Innova is the largest producer in DG. Because of that there is more of a chance to have different results within a mold. Despite what we might hope, there is a chance for weird freak versions of a mold. If you know what you are looking for this is easy to midigate. Most of us who post regularly on here know this already.

The same thing can happen with any manufacturer. Injection molding is far from an exact science.

 

[Nasty Nate]

I like Innova drivers but I don't like Champion plastic for them. Star plastic 4 life. I think Champ is better for midranges. My main is a glow Champ Roc3 that I absolutely love and I've had for several years, and I'm just now noticing that it's lost a lot of fade. You just gotta play awesome like me and hit a lot of trees.

 

[Moose33]

I really like Champ plastic, but then again I only carry two Innova molds and they are both best in their most OS versions.

 

[DanJon]

A lot of people actually like to carry a Champ version of a mold along with Star/Pro/whatever, because it flies differently.

With my Teebirds; I have a fresh Champ, a broken in Star and a beat in 11x Champ.

I know what each one does and when to throw them.

I'm also not afraid to lose the fresh Champ if it's a risky shot, because I know it's easily replaceable.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I don't think Ive thrown the same mold in different plastics enough to really say much on the subject other than I had always thought when discussing which plastic is more or less OS it is understood that isn't directly off the shelf but after a bit of wear/breaking in.

Teebirds are probably the only mold I have thrown enough of and if falls in line with this. My MF is my go to teebird and has been for almost a year straight and flys damn near like it always has. It was never super OS, but always straight with flat hard fade. My Star TB started out more OS with dumpy fade but after maybe 6 months of trees and spikehyzers I can flip it to straight and will have a bit of turn when thrown flat or light headwind and still kinda dumps rather than fading forward and flat, but definitely less than it did when new.
Basically the Star started more OS, but beat in quicker to be less OS than the MF.

A few other molds I have dealt with from Trilogy is showing some of the same variability in the same plastic just run to run. I think off the shelf most of differences are less about plastic type, and just what we see run to run and the cooling/storage mold temp or whatever leads to the dome changes and PLH differences. Just some plastics might exhibit those changes more frequently. Like the DX TB I gave to a buddy's 7 year old because the PLH was soo low it flew like a seasoned leopard rather than a TB.

 

[Twmccoy]

Champion plastic is generally Innova's most stable plastic. However, I still prefer it to Star, pro, G* or whatever else. Champion is durable as hell and will last a very, very long time without changes in flight characteristics. I do think pro and star plastic are longer than Champion.

Now, blizzard Champion is garbage plastic. I hate that stuff and I think its a piss poor composition of plastic. It feels like compressed styrofoam and isn't durable.

I guess the key is to try a few Champion discs in a certain mold until you find one that jives with your needs.

The only disc I've thrown in Champion and never liked was the Destroyer. I feel like Champion Destroyers are unnecessarily overstable and lack glide. I guess I'd say the Groove too, but that's more the mold than the plastic. The Groove is the worst Champion disc out there.

 

[lovebecause]

Innova is the largest producer in DG. Because of that there is more of a chance to have different results within a mold. Despite what we might hope, there is a chance for weird freak versions of a mold. If you know what you are looking for this is easy to midigate. Most of us who post regularly on here know this already.

The same thing can happen with any manufacturer. Injection molding is far from an exact science.

What do you look for?

 

[eric40817]

theres not a lot of champion discs I like. Mids are pretty much it and some drivers if I want more stability in the same mold, but it needs to be the softer champ plastic. Shame on you for not knowing champ TBs are OS lol

 

[PMantle]

Teebirds and Leopards are molds I'll always have in Champ because of how they both fly. I wish I didn't have to, but I do.
Champ Terns may also be a must, but I am on a mission to replace them.

 

[eric40817]

Teebirds and Leopards are molds I'll always have in Champ because of how they both fly. I wish I didn't have to, but I do.
Champ Terns may also be a must, but I am on a mission to replace them.

The Terns are the mold I was referencing. My Renegades (Lucid and Bio) are pretty close to my Star and G* Tern. They're the closest thing to them that I've found but even then I dont know that they'll replace the Terns. I've got a Fuzion on order to try out against my champ. Not sure how it'll compare but we'll see. The Terns are such easy and consistent distance.

 

[spinachd]

I generally prefer the various Champion-style plastics but I don't like Champion itself since it became very clear. Hate the jolly launcher stuff and anything like it.