I Think I've Got My Bag - Prove Me Wrong

[mattchuck]

I've been honing my bag for a few years. My most recent change is a switch from Rocs to Buzzzes/Wasp - trying to get my midrange game up to snuff. I've also been working on adding some distance, getting more snap and all that. I currently top out around 350, but with some recent adjustments, I'm hoping to add on another 50-100 feet within the next few months. Anyway, check out my bag - overlap? something missing? I own a ton of other discs that I choose not to carry, mostly distance drivers which I've accepted that I'm not ready for yet, but any feedback would be cool.

175 Champion Starfire: New addition - for headwinds/big hyzers/flicks, since my Orc is a little beat - still learning this one.

167 Champion Orc: Main distance driver (over 300 ft)

170 Champion Valkyrie: Alternate distance driver, tailwinds, long anhyzer/S-shots (over 300 ft)

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171 Champion Eagle-L: S-Curves, open drives, anyhyzers and wooded lines (up to 300 ft, sometimes more)

175 Star TeeBird: Stable fairway shots (up to 300 ft)

171 Star TL: Wooded driver, straight shots, slight annys (up to 300 ft)

175 Star Firebird: Overstable shots, spike hyzers, forehand drives

167 Champion Leopard: Anyhyzers, wooded holes, hyzer flips

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177 Z Wasp: Stable to overstable mid - used to use a KC Pro Roc, but got sick of the lack of consistent and affordable quality plastics, so I'm trying this out

175 ESP Buzzz: Pretty new, so currently being used as my go-to mid range - I've got a 177 Z stashed away for when this gets beaten in, so this can become my understable mid

180 Star Mako: Finesse shots, anyhyzers - still getting used to the Buzzz, so this will get significant mid-range use for a while - a little worried there might be some overlap with this and Buzz eventually, but I know the Mako quite well, so for now I see a use for both

175 Star Gator: Utility disc - stable approaches, forehand approaches, etc.

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175 Evolution HPP Wizards x2: One for driving/approaches, one for putting

 

[keltik]

the starfire overlaps with the Teebird to an extent. this is exasperated by the power implied in your post. you could use the FB for the SF shots also.

the Leopard, TL and Eagle-L all kinda do the same thing. I would pick one.

the Mako and Buzzz are kinda similar. I'm a Buzzz guy but I would pick the one you like best.

some folks would argue you could make the same shots with a FB that you could with the Gator.

I'm not a big fan of premium plastic for putters since putting is supremely grip intensive. but putting is also a feel thing. if you like the evos keep 'em. but I suggest you try a medium or soft Wiz.

 

[mattchuck]

cool.

the hpp wizard i putt with is the clear evo plastic, so its super gummy. i have wizards in a bunch of different levels of grip (the only ones i've yet to try are glow and organic), and i actually like how that clear gummy one feels out of my hand better than the soft/supersoft ones. i might switch it out for a SS in the winter on occasion, but the clear hpp and i are seeing eye-to-eye lately. i actually like throwing the mediums once in a while too.

 

[mattchuck]

One thing that I probably should've mentioned as well is that I'm from the Northeast, so I'm playing primarily wooded courses (many very heavily wooded), and fairway drivers end up being quite important (some courses I'm not even bringing along anything faster than a teebird).

Keeping in mind that the TL and the EL are both pretty new to me, my thinking on my fairway selection is this (in more detail than above):

175 TB - Stable to overstable fairway shots when I can throw pretty hard and have some room
171 TL - Super straight shots with good length and a lot of accuracy
171 EL - Winding/curvier shots navigating through and around trees, due to its greater ability to turn and then fade than the TL (as a bonus, I can also throw this consistently farther than the prior 2 when wide open, for whatever reason)
168 LEO - Mostly for anhyzers that won't fade back (the lack of fade is where I see the value here)

So I guess my question is - does this make more sense, or is still just a bunch of unnecessary overlap? I've been playing for a few years, so it's not as though I'm trying to go super primitive with my bag, but I also see the value in not carrying a million different molds.

A lot of my answer is obviously going to come from actually trying the discs more for the shots I'm mentioning and seeing how things play out, but it is nice to hear from others whether my thought process makes sense, or if I'm just trying to find a spot for new discs that I didn't necessarily need to get (but I do love so far!)

My second hesitation is that I'm starting to be able to throw mids further and further, and that might factor in to some of the overlap I could potentially have going on (might an understable Buzz take the place of the leopard, for example). With the strides I've been making with added snap, it's starting to feel like my mids are doing what my fairway drivers used to, and my fairway drivers are stepping up to do what the distance drivers used to do. (Needless to say, I'm excited for the distance drivers to make the jump next).

 

[tistoude]

Matt I have found that as my distance increases with my Buzzz I am using a fairway driver less and less. Which is actually pretty awesome since I have recently pared down my bag quite a bit. I know that not every one agrees with me but I would rather have discs that I can use for multiple shots rather than a disc for each seperate type of shot.

 

[MattMan]

Still a lot of overlap. Personally the only fairway I really use is a Teebird and my mids do the rest. I would probably drop the Leopard and either the Eagle/TL and use your mids for these shots. Especially if they're under 300'

 

[mattchuck]

Thanks. Sounds like I'll be spending some time tossing the eagle, TL, and buzzz to see what each one can really accomplish and trim from there. I've floated the idea of ditching the leopard many times, due to it being pretty one-dimensional, I just haven't gotten to the point where I had a solid replacement yet. The Buzzz is new though, so once I knock some of the fade out of that disc, hopefully I can throw a nice enough anyhyzer to bump the leo.

 

[djjeremiahj]

you seem to be advanced enough to have your bag dialed in...

beside the things posted above (leopard vs tl, etc). here is what i see and would recommend...

As you have a forehand shot,
Get a CHAMP RHYNO.
it's the gold standard for the forehand guys i play with, and for me. it requires less power than the Gator and is a finesse alternate. Game Changer!
Also,
it covers the putter alternate gap you seem to have. Alternate meaning...
It's kinda windy.... i need the disc to stay on the ground if i miss.... i'm shooting down hill and need a slower disc, etc... "Alternate".
Great short range approach disc. <- To me this is it's true function (both forehand and backhand)
Very good reliable, stable putter driver also. (Mine is laser straight and up-n-down up to 200')

suggestion #2.
You are missing the max distance drivers (aka Homerun throwers).
Your game benefits greatly from your slower drivers and control, and i know you mention that you play in wooded courses, but it's nice to know that if you need the big guns, you got em. I am sure there are a few courses around you that have big open grassy meadows. (i'm huge on discing down as a methodology, but i also realize the need for fast discs) 3 recommendations:
1) Katana - It's almost a "mandatory" driver these days.... You got the skill that you should be able to push this to 400'. (170g+/- maybe pro? star takes a while to break in and get the turnover required to BOMB!)

2) Wraith - It will feel like a natural upgrade from your orc. It's also a very reliable backhand and GREAT forehand disc. (170g+/-) <- I really like Champion plastic for this disc.

3) 175 Destroyer (Star) start beating it in early. it will take a while, but once you get it, it will be the upgrade/alternate to your wraith. It's an amazing bomber forehand disc too. From day 1, as a forehand disc, you'll see a much faster and longer alternate to what you currently throw.<- be patient it will take a minute to break in and stop being a meathook.

 

[Mike C]

Mandatory my ass man....Katanas...hah...

 

[mattchuck]

thanks man.

i actually own a 167 star destroyer, 175 champ boss, and i just recently made an impulse buy in a shop of a 170 star katana (i just really liked how it felt in my hand)....i've just yet to get to the point where i'm more comfortable with them than the orc for distance. for a while, i was carrying the boss as a flick disc, and i had some success, but i've been flicking a lot less as of late, so i just use the orc or firebird when needed.

like i said, with the focus i've been putting on snap lately, i'm hoping in the next few months, i'll be ready to consider carrying one of the aforementioned - there is one course i play that has a ton of bomb holes. for now though, i don't want to force it and get discouraged. once i get those bombing consistently in a field, i'll surely consider throwing one in the bag. definitely a good thought.

the rhyno idea is interesting....that is one thing i forgot to include - i'll sometimes putt with a gator in mega-windy spots. while never having thrown a rhyno, i have felt one, and it felt a little awkward (could just be the thumb-trac which reminds me of the dx wolf i used to throw....gives me the creeps). the gator to me just has a real nice feel, and i have a really good sense of what it can and can't do. at the same time, it isn't really a putter, so maybe i will take a more serious look at a rhyno next time i see one.

you're right in that i'm pretty comfortable with my bag, aside from the fairway driver scenario. it's just neat to hear outside opinions, and so far, i've gotten a lot of good points to consider.

 

[djjeremiahj]

the rhyno idea is interesting....that is one thing i forgot to include - i'll sometimes putt with a gator in mega-windy spots. while never having thrown a rhyno, i have felt one, and it felt a little awkward (could just be the thumb-trac which reminds me of the dx wolf i used to throw....gives me the creeps). the gator to me just has a real nice feel, and i have a really good sense of what it can and can't do. at the same time, it isn't really a putter, so maybe i will take a more serious look at a rhyno next time i see one.

you're right in that i'm pretty comfortable with my bag, aside from the fairway driver scenario. it's just neat to hear outside opinions, and so far, i've gotten a lot of good points to consider.

re: Rhyno
it will feel strange as a forehand disc and (for some) as a backhand for a short while. 10 throws later and that issue is gone.

also, dont really think of the rhyno as a putter... it's an all purpose short game disc. Amazing at forehand control flicks, great at hyzers, putts well in certain conditions, drives straight... now i've learned how to drive with it, it's nice to think that i have a laser straight throw to any target within 175'.

The gator, requires more power, and for me, is a bastard stepchild (in my bag) as it fades too much, needs to be thrown hard, and doesnt glide much. But, it's still a lock in my bag, and seems to be my "save my butt disc" anytime i use it.

 

[mattchuck]

seems to be my "save my butt disc" anytime i use it.

exactly why i carry it. on paper, it might not seem necessary, but it gets its work. i've heard people say that, out of any disc, it feels the most like just tossing a rock (not Roc) or other hard/heavy object, as opposed to a disc, and it just goes as far as you throw it, without extra glide or anything. i thought that was a great comparison.

 

[BrotherDave]

the starfire overlaps with the Teebird to an extent. this is exasperated by the power implied in your post. you could use the FB for the SF shots also.

the Leopard, TL and Eagle-L all kinda do the same thing. I would pick one.

the Mako and Buzzz are kinda similar. I'm a Buzzz guy but I would pick the one you like best.

some folks would argue you could make the same shots with a FB that you could with the Gator.

I'm not a big fan of premium plastic for putters since putting is supremely grip intensive. but putting is also a feel thing. if you like the evos keep 'em. but I suggest you try a medium or soft Wiz.

Nailed it IMO.

We in NC play in heavily wooded courses as well and one thing that really helps with wooded holes is throwing mids and putters instead of drivers b/c they don't kick as hard off the fairway. So to clear up your fairway driver confusion I'd try and see what shots you can pull off with your mids and putters that would make some of those U/S drivers expendable.

I don't have a big problem w/ keeping the Leo if it's super flippy, there's always a use for an uber flippy disc but eventually the TL or EL should beat in to replace it, if you really want to keep the molds to a minimum.

I also don't subscribe to djjeremiah's philosophy of having a "home-run" distance disc like a Katana, I just don't think the pros of having a little extra D is worth the loss in accuracy or detriment to one's form. My little hands don't make them useful at all really but you might be different, you know?

 

[mattchuck]

very soon i'm planning on playing a round with just a buzz and a wizard. i'm hoping its going to be pretty eye-opening.

 

[keltik]

A Buzzz/Wizzz round will change your life.

damnit Dave quit complaining about your hands! they're not that small. they look fine on a woman that's 5'6". lulz. but seriously your hands aren't freakishly small.

 

[Mike C]

very soon i'm planning on playing a round with just a buzz and a wizard. i'm hoping its going to be pretty eye-opening.

What's eye opening to me about doing that is seeing how close I can get a Buzz to where my drivers go on "long holes" where I would never normally throw my Buzz if I have my Stalker, Pred, Orc etc. with me.

 

[djjeremiahj]

I also don't subscribe to djjeremiah's philosophy of having a "home-run" distance disc like a Katana, I jus tdon't think the pros of having a little extra D is worth the loss in accuracy or detriment to one's form. My little hands don't make them useful at all really but you might be different, you know?

i think you miss the point of the "home run" disc...
my home course is precision based... missing a line or placement can mean the difference between a bird and a bogey. discing down, at my home course, is the best advice you can give any player. But i've played some courses that are basically fields and meadows disguised as Disc Golf courses where the focus is distance not precision....

The home run disc is the disc you carry when you get the opportunity to really throw for distance. courses with open spaces, meadows etc.... While i am a HUGE supporter of the disc down concept, this methodology fails when the course has no obstacles and distance is the only factor.
If the sign says 650'... you really advocate taking the "disc down" teebird to 300' or picking up the katana and pushing it closer to 400' (even with the potential for an aberrant hook...)?

Discing down is a great methodology, mentality and practice, but it has its limitations. The benefit of discing down is that you realize the purpose and use for discs and when you choose a max distance driver you understand when is appropriate to use it (instead of relying on it).

Sure accuracy and precision are great (discing down) but sometimes you just need distance; aka "home run".

 

[Mike C]

Why not just throw the TB 400?

 

[djjeremiahj]

Why not just throw the TB 400?

because most mortals cant and can only push it 300' +/-; the pros use it in the ranges of 325-375'....if you can push your TB 400' with accuracy you are probably 950+ rated and really dont need any education about throwing plastic.

there is a purpose for max distance drivers.... it's just that those with lesser arms tend to rely on them rather than realize they are just another specialized disc in the bag to be used in specialized situations.