[Innova] In defense of Innova...

[remember2morrow]

IMO, Preds throw similar to Firebirds. Off topic, but when I said an RG is a Strat on roids, I was referring to the tone. Try playing some Animals as Leaders on a stock Fender Strat and let me know how that works out. That being said, I myself am in the midst of making the switch to a Les Paul. BEEFY TONE!

 

[TwoTechnics]

Innova, as big as they are in disc golf, is still a small business. For everyone to paint them like they are Goliath National Bank (HIMYM reference, anyone?) is silly.

I bet Ted and Marshall threw Innova in college, Barney he was probably a Lat64 guy!

 

[onemilemore]

I bet Ted and Marshall threw Innova in college

...while they "ate sandwiches."

 

[HotPinkBeast]

 

[Tpro]

IMO, Preds throw similar to Firebirds. Off topic, but when I said an RG is a Strat on roids, I was referring to the tone. Try playing some Animals as Leaders on a stock Fender Strat and let me know how that works out. That being said, I myself am in the midst of making the switch to a Les Paul. BEEFY TONE!

Do they not play 8 string guitars anyways? Who said I was talking about true Stock strats/teles? MAybe I have EMGs. Ok but back to INNOVA. They arent that bad. Plus Innova already has the TB/T/TL,El/EX/ and LEOPARD. i just dont see what else you would need in a fairway driver.

 

[Flip it Flat]

Different mold with name of old disc, I will give you. The Roc conundrum is kind of a pain in the a$$. I finally just asked a local who was able to clear it all up for me.

Maybe it is that I haven't had any problems with disc golf companies to really complain about, and that even a crappy experience out on the course is still better than most other days, so I am content with what I have.[/QUOTE]

I have come to dislike Innova because of inconsistencies in production over the years. It's annoying and I hate that certain discs that you get used to and love change sometimes dramatically from one run to the next and your about to buy a replacement and your new Valk or other popular disc performs very differently than the one you had from a few years ago. You may eventually become one of us in a few years when your experiences begin to show you the same issues with consistency as some of us have noticed.

I agree that they have done a ton for DG, but they have made some poor decisions in regards to their production of discs and consistency/quality control in the last few years. I also agree that the consumer will eventually decide their fate, their is a lot more competition out there now as versus before and if they don't adjust and maintain consistency people will go elsewhere as I have. It doesn't matter if you produce the most discs, if they don't meet the standards that the consumer is used too then they will eventually go elsewhere to get what they seek. Frankly I'm glad that their is more companies producing high end discs. The way Innova responds to this over the next few years will decide the future of the company, if they take their customers for granted they could end up being passed up in the market. This happens all the time, look at computers and the automotive industry, those companies that don't maintain quality and consistency lose market share.

I tend to be a critic and as such have gone about changing my bag over to Vibram, Lat, MVP. I will reserve a spot or 2 for some Blizzard discs I plan on trying out but that is the extent of it for now. I have given most of my old collection of Innova DX and that to friends and family or people I meet on the course that likely could use a disc as I really have no use for it now or probably in the future.

 

[pspunch]

i like innova, but i like all of the manufacturers. defects and the occasional flub are not enough to make me hate an entire brand. they still put out an s-ton-f-load of discs that are perfect representations of the mold.

MVP, Discraft, Innova, Lat64... look at any thread on here talking about a certain disc and you'll find people talking about what they prefer. dome, flat, high/low plh, color... all seemingly causing a different flight. it's just something that happens, at the end of the day this is a 1st world problem that we're fortunate to sit here and discuss. we could be dodging canibals in Liberia

 

[Grape Drank]

I'm an Innova man

I have never owned a disc that wasn't made by Innova. I started out with some Dx plastic and have been slowly replacing them with champion. To me I don't really have a preference of one brand over the other, I just have way more experience with Innova discs, so that is what I use.

 

[onemilemore]

i like innova, but i like all of the manufacturers. defects and the occasional flub are not enough to make me hate an entire brand. they still put out an s-ton-f-load of discs that are perfect representations of the mold.

MVP, Discraft, Innova, Lat64... look at any thread on here talking about a certain disc and you'll find people talking about what they prefer. dome, flat, high/low plh, color... all seemingly causing a different flight. it's just something that happens, at the end of the day this is a 1st world problem that we're fortunate to sit here and discuss. we could be dodging canibals in Liberia

Exactly. And I think some of the newer companies haven't had a chance to show inconsistencies yet. I know some run smaller runs, which makes them higher quality, but that may not put them at the top end of the business spectrum. Supply has to end up equaling demand, and even if Innova has some bad runs from time to time, they can keep restocking the shelves. That availability alone gives them an advantage.

Also, yes, first world problems, indeed. Allow me to sip my Starbucks while I ponder this further.

 

[E-Gabs]

Innova is disc golf's Fender. Haters gon hate.

AAAAANNNND it's in my sig.

 

[urwatuh8]

I have to say, I am tired of all the Innova bashing that takes place on these boards. It seems as if everyone wants to rip on them because they are the big, bad, #1 disc golf company, which automatically makes them money-hungry corporate diggers who prey on us poor defenseless customers.

Innova has done so much for disc golf in this area, from developing courses to sponsoring events, it is not even funny.

And has anyone ever thought that, just maybe, we see all of the supposed "inconsistencies" because they are the biggest company and have the most products being used?

Finally, I would like the end with this statement: For every person that comes on here and rants about a crappy Innova product -- be it a disc, bag, whatever -- there are probably 10 people out enjoying their product without complaint. It is always the most dissatisfied who are the most vocal. The people who are happy with their products are too busy out enjoying them to post on a message board about it.

Sorry to be on my high horse, but this way bothering me this morning.

The reason I'm not a big fan of Innova is they come off as especially cheap on the plastic front. I would rather support companies trying to use the best materials, rather than ones that cut corners:

1) If you compare to a decade ago, the quality of available disc plastics has improved a lot. The quality of Innova's plastic has gone down.

2) Innova's notable recent plastic improvement is blizzard: where you actually get less plastic!

3) Most of the time I'm tempted to buy an Innova disc, it turns out it isn't available in the plastic I want:

a) Their most overstable mid in regular production in Champ? Spider

b) Few large diameter (above 21.2cm) discs in premium plastic in general. The only regular production Champ one is the Coyote. (MVP only has four molds, and they have two!)

 

[Flip it Flat]

The reason I'm not a big fan of Innova is they come off as especially cheap on the plastic front. I would rather support companies trying to use the best materials, rather than ones that cut corners:

1) If you compare to a decade ago, the quality of available disc plastics has improved a lot. The quality of Innova's plastic has gone down.

2) Innova's notable recent plastic improvement is blizzard: where you actually get less plastic!

^^^^^^^
This is exactly how I feel, especially the first point you make.

When you get use to a certain level of quality and it goes down versus going up, what do you as a consumer tend to think

I bought a few Innova discs a few months ago, R-Pro and DX, these were chewed up on the course in only a few rounds of play. Sorry, I'm not going to fork over that kinda money when i can buy a much better product for just a little more money that will last.

 

[NOSteveLA]

After purchasing four champ roadrunners,all equal weight and realising that the discs all fly different
I came to my own conclusion that Innova is just careless w/ quality control.
See CFR Champ Max for reference,(most all have bubbles in rim) or early run vikings & valkyries compared to the domey crap that can now be found in any disc golf store....they obviously do not mind supplying their customers
with defective discs and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Big Weekend]

You obviously haven't interacted with the factory store :|

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one completely fed up with their BS.

 

[TwoTechnics]

when was the last time innova put out a good instructional vid, other the an adverstment. anyone??
i guess you could say the discmania deep in the game series is a partial innova project, but not really??

 

[onemilemore]

I guess what I can take from this all is that there will be plenty of Innova plastic for me to throw if I so choose, since a lot of other people have gone other ways.

 

[jtreadwell]

Different mold with name of old disc, I will give you. The Roc conundrum is kind of a pain in the a$$. I finally just asked a local who was able to clear it all up for me.

Maybe it is that I haven't had any problems with disc golf companies to really complain about, and that even a crappy experience out on the course is still better than most other days, so I am content with what I have.

I have come to dislike Innova because of inconsistencies in production over the years. It's annoying and I hate that certain discs that you get used to and love change sometimes dramatically from one run to the next and your about to buy a replacement and your new Valk or other popular disc performs very differently than the one you had from a few years ago. You may eventually become one of us in a few years when your experiences begin to show you the same issues with consistency as some of us have noticed.

I agree that they have done a ton for DG, but they have made some poor decisions in regards to their production of discs and consistency/quality control in the last few years. I also agree that the consumer will eventually decide their fate, their is a lot more competition out there now as versus before and if they don't adjust and maintain consistency people will go elsewhere as I have. It doesn't matter if you produce the most discs, if they don't meet the standards that the consumer is used too then they will eventually go elsewhere to get what they seek. Frankly I'm glad that their is more companies producing high end discs. The way Innova responds to this over the next few years will decide the future of the company, if they take their customers for granted they could end up being passed up in the market. This happens all the time, look at computers and the automotive industry, those companies that don't maintain quality and consistency lose market share.

I tend to be a critic and as such have gone about changing my bag over to Vibram, Lat, MVP. I will reserve a spot or 2 for some Blizzard discs I plan on trying out but that is the extent of it for now. I have given most of my old collection of Innova DX and that to friends and family or people I meet on the course that likely could use a disc as I really have no use for it now or probably in the future.

See, I agree with this to a point, however, 99 out of 100 Disc Golfers aren't good enough or don't change discs enough to notice the inconsistencies. Many on this site are likely part of the 1%, but in case anyone hasn't noticed already, any company that opts to take 1% of the money they could be making is going to go out of business quicker than a greased cheetah on a grassy slope. As long as Innova is everywhere, people will continue to buy and enjoy their products without knowing the difference between a CE Roc and and a Roc +. I personally love a lot of Innova's products, but I must be in the 99% that isn't good enough to notice.

 

[DBarb]

a lot of peoples' complaints about Innova is that as the "biggest" why they don't put more effort into quality control etc

This :thmbup:

Since they are the biggest name in disc golf, you would think that they would try to make the runs more consistent. I've had a couple of destroyers and teebirds from different runs that all fly different. Some are flat, some are domey. That's the only thing I don't like about Innova. I've never had that problem from Discraft.

That being said, I still use more Innova drivers that any other company. It just sucks that I have to sit around and pick through the discs to find the best mold.

 

[Horsman]

I think I'm the only one here that throws 100% Innova plastic. Yea their quality isn't the greatest but to me thats whats great about them. I got 4 destroyers in the bag all the same yet all different from flippy as heck to stable as heck, I love that I can have the same mold in suck different states. I also have 5 rocs but these are different because of states a wear, nothing compares to this. I throw Innova and will always throw Innova. With everything being said I really don't carry anything really currently produced, a lot of my stuff is old 11x or star plastic so the quality was better back then.

 

[ManU]

I think I'm the only one here that throws 100% Innova plastic. Yea their quality isn't the greatest but to me thats whats great about them. I got 4 destroyers in the bag all the same yet all different from flippy as heck to stable as heck, I love that I can have the same mold in suck different states. I also have 5 rocs but these are different because of states a wear, nothing compares to this. I throw Innova and will always throw Innova. With everything being said I really don't carry anything really currently produced, a lot of my stuff is old 11x or star plastic so the quality was better back then.

you got that right

/giggles