Installing a basket beside a river

[Casey 1988]

sweet thats one overrated persons opinion

times change and dinosaurs die off

thankfully we have new ideas and new visions to expand our hobby

I like that last quote. He was not a Dinosaur but a total Stick in the mud from day one to the point a course Omaha park in Rapid City South Dakota, he suposedly created went right back to the original design of a tee pad near the train tracks because there was no other place to go with that hole and still have a 9 hole course. All the other holes were approved as fine or only slight modify for the soccer field and too close to one net with a hole.

 

[ru4por]

Fair enough, but the OP wasn't asking about whether to put a basket next to water.

Probably not. But, much like anyone asking about putting in a course...the responses should always include caution. Caution to consider safety (both player and others), public image, park system long term view of the game and upkeep. I think most would do this, but we have plenty of courses that should never have been put in. Just because you can, does not mean you should.

For the record, I don't think anyone here was trolling the OP, nor advising against baskets by water. There are simply more things to consider when putting any basket by a river, lake, walking path, playground, parking lot....

 

[DavidSauls]

I won't be critical, not knowing the details -- what sort of river, exactly how close to the shore, who's going to be playing this course, etc. -- but I'm wondering, if the pin placement is low enough and close enough that groundwater is an issue, how often the river will be running high and that hole unplayable.

 

[araytx]

Don't worry about the detractors, they just want to start an argument. Chuck, in particular, thinks that water should never be in play on a hole lest one beginner lose their only disc and become so disgusted that they never play disc golf again.

The hole that you put the concrete in should be 24" deep and 6-8" in diameter. So here are some of suggestions:

1. Buy a cardboard cylinder that is 24x8" and pour the concrete into that, letting it set around the base of the pole or the sleeve depending on which you are using. Then, dig the hole at the location and put the preformed base (with cardboard cylinder removed) in the hole and tamp in dirt and sand around it.

2. Build up the area where you will put the basket so that digging into the built-up ground will allow the hole to be dug without reaching the water table.

3. Use a 24" long piece of 6" pvc drain pipe with plastic securely taped to the bottom. Dig the hole so that the pipe fits very snugly (tamp in sand around it to fill any voids) and then install the pole into pipe with concrete.

Any time I have run into this problem, I have just put dry mix into the hole and used the existing water for the concrete. I can take out some water if there is too much, but I've never had to.

I won't be critical, not knowing the details -- what sort of river, exactly how close to the shore, who's going to be playing this course, etc. -- but I'm wondering, if the pin placement is low enough and close enough that groundwater is an issue, how often the river will be running high and that hole unplayable.

And what about long-term effects of erosion? So many courses are built installed with little to no thought about the long-term.

 

[DavidSauls]

True, but that goes back to details. For all I know, it could be a private course in the boondocks, where there won't be enough foot traffic to cause serious erosion.

 

[BillFleming]

While I'm on the side of 'why put a basket close to a river'....I like the suggestion of using a bucket for the concrete. You could even use a small bucket to limit the amount of concrete used. To keep the bucket from being pulled out of the ground or the basket/pole being knocked over, you could get rebar or something similar and put it through the bucket so it sticks out from the sides. Put the pole in and add the concrete. Then dig the hole, put the bucket in the ground and put the dirt back in packing it down tightly.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Probably right. But, I see few nature trails designed to have hikers ford the river.

Your choice of nature trails is mildly interesting, but has nothing to do with liability. I have seen quite a few nature trails that call upon the hiker to ford river, stream or creek.

Few picnic areas with the parking across the river, with crossing the easiest of paths.

This is a weird example of nothing relevant to the discussion. Generally, parking lots are build in close proximity to the places to which interested persons may want to drive.

Putting a pin next to a river, ensures some players are going to egress the body. Still seems like a willing decision, to expose knuckleheads to potential danger.

Stupid people will do stupid things. Without knowing anything about the river in question, there is no reason to think that it can or cannot be safely traversed, and no reason to think that the OP shouldn't put a basket next to it. More importantly, there is no reason to think that anyone who chooses to go into the river looking for the disc will have anyone else to blame for his/her stupid judgment if that turns out to be a really bad idea. No one is made to play disc golf. If disc golfers don't want to play baskets next to water, they can simply choose another course to play. Any problem presented by such a basket placement is a self correcting one.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

If it's close enough to the bank that you can't dig down enough to avoid water, chances are it's going to flood also. While that may not seem like a big deal because people aren't as likely to play in flood level storms, it could possibly wash your basket away.

 

[Countchunkula]

Don't worry about the detractors, they just want to start an argument. Chuck, in particular, thinks that water should never be in play on a hole lest one beginner lose their only disc and become so disgusted that they never play disc golf again.

The hole that you put the concrete in should be 24" deep and 6-8" in diameter. So here are some of suggestions:

1. Buy a cardboard cylinder that is 24x8" and pour the concrete into that, letting it set around the base of the pole or the sleeve depending on which you are using. Then, dig the hole at the location and put the preformed base (with cardboard cylinder removed) in the hole and tamp in dirt and sand around it.

2. Build up the area where you will put the basket so that digging into the built-up ground will allow the hole to be dug without reaching the water table.

3. Use a 24" long piece of 6" pvc drain pipe with plastic securely taped to the bottom. Dig the hole so that the pipe fits very snugly (tamp in sand around it to fill any voids) and then install the pole into pipe with concrete.

Any time I have run into this problem, I have just put dry mix into the hole and used the existing water for the concrete. I can take out some water if there is too much, but I've never had to.

Not an expert by any means, but considering he's in the great white north, don't you think you should go deeper than 24"? Freeze/thaw cycles and all.

 

[chevis]

while the bucket idea is good/convenient, i have seen a lot of them start to lean over time (in sandy soil); if placed where the water table is that high, i would guess it might be leaning pretty quick... rebar can help, but i have still seen the 5 gallon bucket with 2 sticks of 4' rebar through it start to lean (the rebar were parallel instead of perpendicular for some reason).
(one my pet peeves is leaning baskets)

 

[ru4por]

Your choice of nature trails is mildly interesting, but has nothing to do with liability. I have seen quite a few nature trails that call upon the hiker to ford river, stream or creek.



This is a weird example of nothing relevant to the discussion. Generally, parking lots are build in close proximity to the places to which interested persons may want to drive.




Stupid people will do stupid things. Without knowing anything about the river in question, there is no reason to think that it can or cannot be safely traversed, and no reason to think that the OP shouldn't put a basket next to it. More importantly, there is no reason to think that anyone who chooses to go into the river looking for the disc will have anyone else to blame for his/her stupid judgment if that turns out to be a really bad idea. No one is made to play disc golf. If disc golfers don't want to play baskets next to water, they can simply choose another course to play. Any problem presented by such a basket placement is a self correcting one.

You seem to be interested in defending the OP decision. I am only looking to encourage pragmatic thought before decisions. Stupid people do stupid things is not the answer to someone objecting to a disc golf course. Regardless of what you or I think is appropriate, the course may ultimately come under scrutiny by others. Neighbors, lawyers, the city, the park.... I likely agree that a golfer wandering out and into a road, to get his disc, getting hit by a car, is his own fault. But, don't suggest that does not reflect badly on the course. I am simply encouraging the OP, and anyone to think about the big picture. Yes, I am using a basket by a road, only as an illustration of potential course installation concerns.

I enjoy baskets by water, the challenge can be fun and the aesthetics usually great. I am not discouraging the OP, just hoping to advocate seeing the big picture. We can disagree, but it really doesn't warrant an interwebz debate.

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

If it's close enough to the bank that you can't dig down enough to avoid water, chances are it's going to flood also. While that may not seem like a big deal because people aren't as likely to play in flood level storms, it could possibly wash your basket away.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

You seem to be interested in defending the OP decision.

No, and your failure to see this seems to cloud your reasoning. I have merely pointed out that the OP didn't come here asking whether to do something, he asked how to do it. He did not provide enough information for anyone here to criticize the choice to do what he is wanting to do, but lacking that information hasn't stopped many from seeing his post as an excuse to give advise not sought.

I am only looking to encourage pragmatic thought before decisions.

Which implies that the OP hasn't given this any thought and that YOU, without enough information to offer any useful advice, nevertheless have excellent advice to give.

Stupid people do stupid things is not the answer to someone objecting to a disc golf course.

So you are objecting to the pin placement you know little about? Or you think it is reasonably objectionable, again, without knowing much about it?

And, this misses the point. "Stupid people do stupid things" is a perfectly good defense to misplaced concerns about liability. You cannot prevent stupid people from doing stupid things nor do you have the duty, as a course designer, to try.

Regardless of what you or I think is appropriate, the course may ultimately come under scrutiny by others. Neighbors, lawyers, the city, the park....

Translation: "No matter what you think, I am right." What I suggest is that anyone who, upon seeing a river next to or running through a park, and who wants the park moved away from the river because someone might drown, is unreasonable and very unlikely to be heeded by anyone.

I likely agree that a golfer wandering out and into a road, to get his disc, getting hit by a car, is his own fault.

Like, how likely? 52%? 77.3%? Are roads inherently dangerous, just like rivers, such that we have to make sure that people do not go near them?

But, don't suggest that does not reflect badly on the course. I am simply encouraging the OP, and anyone to think about the big picture. Yes, I am using a basket by a road, only as an illustration of potential course installation concerns.

This is just as silly. If any part of hole is anywhere near a road, discs will go on the road. It doesn't have to the the basket. Of course, this is also true of water. Does the fact that disc golfers may have to walk out onto or cross the road to retrieve a disc make the design dangerous? Of course not.

I enjoy baskets by water, the challenge can be fun and the aesthetics usually great. I am not discouraging the OP, just hoping to advocate seeing the big picture. We can disagree, but it really doesn't warrant an interwebz debate.

And yet, here you are.

 

[ru4por]

No, and your failure to see this seems to cloud your reasoning. I have merely pointed out that the OP didn't come here asking whether to do something, he asked how to do it. He did not provide enough information for anyone here to criticize the choice to do what he is wanting to do, but lacking that information hasn't stopped many from seeing his post as an excuse to give advise not sought.




Which implies that the OP hasn't given this any thought and that YOU, without enough information to offer any useful advice, nevertheless have excellent advice to give.




So you are objecting to the pin placement you know little about? Or you think it is reasonably objectionable, again, without knowing much about it?

And, this misses the point. "Stupid people do stupid things" is a perfectly good defense to misplaced concerns about liability. You cannot prevent stupid people from doing stupid things nor do you have the duty, as a course designer, to try.



Translation: "No matter what you think, I am right." What I suggest is that anyone who, upon seeing a river next to or running through a park, and who wants the park moved away from the river because someone might drown, is unreasonable and very unlikely to be heeded by anyone.



Like, how likely? 52%? 77.3%? Are roads inherently dangerous, just like rivers, such that we have to make sure that people do not go near them?




This is just as silly. If any part of hole is anywhere near a road, discs will go on the road. It doesn't have to the the basket. Of course, this is also true of water. Does the fact that disc golfers may have to walk out onto or cross the road to retrieve a disc make the design dangerous? Of course not.



And yet, here you are.

Lol....OK, my friend. You are the internet champion. I think my experience and advice has been clearly delivered and hopefully received, in the positive fashion I intended. But, to be clear, you have won. :hfive:

 

[hiflyer]

Why dont you put the basket in the river, in a bucket?

Put it

..in a van,
Down by the river!!

 

[Casey 1988]

My thought is buy a umbrella stand base that is metal then secure the base in the stand permanently. After this is done get some particle boards, the kind that has a rough side and a smooth side then use that to make a mold just big enough to fit the basket in and you have a rather heavy basket that nobody wants to steal and it sits on the ground. To make the block of concrete more durable, add rebar into the concrete in the layers horizontal.

 

[autocrosscrx]

There is a short downhill hole local to me (#6 Admiral Farragut in Knoxville, TN) that leads up to the Tennessee River. The basket sits about 5 feet from the edge of the water. And it is a fantastically frustrating hole. It is so aceable and such a fun line to run, but your disc will 100% go in the water if long.

 

[JedV]

My thought is buy a umbrella stand base that is metal then secure the base in the stand permanently. After this is done get some particle boards, the kind that has a rough side and a smooth side then use that to make a mold just big enough to fit the basket in and you have a rather heavy basket that nobody wants to steal and it sits on the ground. To make the block of concrete more durable, add rebar into the concrete in the layers horizontal.

Umbrella...particle board...nobody wants to steal...

Sounds about right.

 

[txmxer]

Your choice of nature trails is mildly interesting, but has nothing to do with liability. I have seen quite a few nature trails that call upon the hiker to ford river, stream or creek.



This is a weird example of nothing relevant to the discussion. Generally, parking lots are build in close proximity to the places to which interested persons may want to drive.




Stupid people will do stupid things. Without knowing anything about the river in question, there is no reason to think that it can or cannot be safely traversed, and no reason to think that the OP shouldn't put a basket next to it. More importantly, there is no reason to think that anyone who chooses to go into the river looking for the disc will have anyone else to blame for his/her stupid judgment if that turns out to be a really bad idea. No one is made to play disc golf. If disc golfers don't want to play baskets next to water, they can simply choose another course to play. Any problem presented by such a basket placement is a self correcting one.

What's wrong with you?

Reply: what's wrong with you?

Don't know. I didn't say there is no reason to assume a river is unsafe.

 

[Casey 1988]

Umbrella...particle board...nobody wants to steal...

Sounds about right.

Was meaning for a outdoor table set type of umbrella stand. Then use the boards with them attached by wood screws to make the mold as big as the stand at least for the Concrete that are removed and can add rebar to the mold hoizontal and/or verticle to give rigidity. The big block weight is high enough that few unless in really really bad neighborhood will want to steal the big block.