Ledgestone 2017

[_MTL_]

JV said he KNEW Josh was on the team last week! That statement had absolutely nothing to do with the Facebook screenshot.

That's fair.

I'm just surprised that you and everyone else is taking the stance that he isn't back with Innova.

As I said in another post, you guys have every right to sign him. And everyone has the right to increase or decrease their support of Innova due to this decision.

 

[armiller]

Based on Ace Race data, I calculated that the area where a disc hits any part of a target is generally about 7 or 8 times as large as the area where the disc will stay in the target. Take that into account when computing the number of "good" putts.

Fair enough. We agree. I think a necessary evil of having good baskets is that a number of "bad" putts will end up sticking as well. I think that's more acceptable than truly good putts not staying in.

 

[lyleoross]

Paul McBeth seemed to be doing a lot of chain untangling during the tourney...

You call it untangling, I call it fondling.

 

[jvphobic]

For those that don't want to wade through a four hour pod cast:
53:15 Josh clearly states he is not on the Innova Team.
53:25 JV asks rambling question that starts with: "So right now, you are not officially on the Innova team?" and goes on about how everyone on internet thought he was on the team. JV then asks super leading question and tries to get Josh to admit he is somehow unofficially on the team. And Josh basically states he hopes to get "back on the team".


JV, believe it or not, you are now a trusted journalist and you are considered a reliable source of accurate disc golf information. Instead of printing a retraction, you decide to post this:




So instead of giving us a retraction, you continue to assert you think he is on the team, but you can't get anyone to admit it. There is a big difference between a player getting shirts and discs from a company and being an official team member. Your statement above is no different than a reporter drawing conclusions on the guilt or innocence of a celebrity.

Reporter: "There are plenty of stories out there that so-and-so date-raped a bunch of women at work. So-and-so denies the allegations and so does his employer. However, since there are so many stories, I personally think he is guilty." :wall:



What a scoop you gave us....

I think there is a fine line between "on team Innova" and "receiving free Innova product from Innova". Because here is what I know...
1. A leaked image came out with team Innova results from the Innova team manager. Josh was listed.
2. Josh has been receiving free Innova product.
3. Josh has been talking to Innova about getting back on the team for a few weeks now.
4. I have HEARD from reliable sources that he is ON the team. (Maybe they are wrong too?)

Josh did deny that he was actually ON the team. But when a company sends you free stuff, I call that sponsorship. Can you be sponsored and NOT on the team? Maybe? If so, that is a fine line to walk.

Here is my BIG retraction!!! My terminology was off. Maybe he isn't "officially" on the team yet and he is just some sort of new level of non-team, get free stuff, trial period, dip our toe in the water and see the response sponsored. If that is the case, yes, I was wrong about him "being on the team". Is that the proper thing I should be doing as a "journalist"? Considering the extent of my "journalism" is talking to pros (sometimes privately), and hosting a podcast where I get to drink bourbon (occasionally too much) and talk with my friends about a subject I love. FYI: I am gonna get things wrong at times.

And frankly I love that people come to us for their DG news. I have no clue where you stand with me, or Terry, or our podcast. I stopped caring how people felt about me more years ago than I can remember. I respect Josh. I respect Innova for taking a chance on him, because I think he has... or can earn people's trust back.

 

[lyleoross]

Last year Dana V. came on here and said Kolling was signing with Innova. I spent way too much time calling him out cause there was no evidence. I was wrong and had to apologize to Dana for being a donkey. Given that experience, I think I'll wait and see on Josh.

Some players keep things for their own good reasons. So do some teams.

 

[swhite]

I think there is a fine line between "on team Innova" and "receiving free Innova product from Innova". Because here is what I know...
1. A leaked image came out with team Innova results from the Innova team manager. Josh was listed.
2. Josh has been receiving free Innova product.
3. Josh has been talking to Innova about getting back on the team for a few weeks now.
4. I have HEARD from reliable sources that he is ON the team. (Maybe they are wrong too?)

Josh did deny that he was actually ON the team. But when a company sends you free stuff on a regular basis, I call that sponsorship. Can you be sponsored and NOT on the team? Maybe? If so, that is a fine line to walk.

Here is my BIG retraction!!! My terminology was off. Maybe he isn't "officially" on the team yet and he is just some sort of new level of non-team, get free stuff, trial period, dip our toe in the water and see the response sponsored. If that is the case, yes, I was wrong about him "being on the team". Is that the proper thing I should be doing as a "journalist"? Considering the extent of my "journalism" is talking to pros (sometimes privately), and hosting a podcast where I get to drink bourbon (occasionally too much) and talk with my friends about a subject I love. FYI: I am gonna get things wrong at times.

And frankly I love that people come to us for their DG news. I have no clue where you stand with me, or Terry, or our podcast. I stopped caring how people felt about me more years ago than I can remember. I respect Josh. I respect Innova for taking a chance on him, because I think he has... or can earn people's trust back.

Oh, don't say that. This sounds like one step away from feeling disdain for the people that you are broadcasting to. I do not believe this is true.

 

[jvphobic]

Oh, don't say that. This sounds like one step away from feeling disdain for the people that you are broadcasting to. I do not believe this is true.

Not to be taken like THAT at all. I LOVE doing what I do. And I love all the people that support and watch. It is a highlight of my week. What I am saying is that if people don't enjoy the podcast or like me for the person that I am now, I am too old to care or change that. By no means do I feel any disdain for the people that watch. I am sorry that it came off like that.

 

[lyleoross]

Oh, don't say that. This sounds like one step away from feeling disdain for the people that you are broadcasting to. I do not believe this is true.

I think you have to build up a thick skin when you're this close to your audience. I've seen way to many direct attacks on JV and Terry to not understand. My advice, don't read the posts. That's hard since they are trying to respond.

BTW - I've seen direct attacks on every one of the media guys. We dish on them in ways we'd never personally tolerate. Golden rule.

 

[Discette]

I think there is a fine line between "on team Innova" and "receiving free Innova product from Innova". Because here is what I know...
1. A leaked image came out with team Innova results from the Innova team manager. Josh was listed.
2. Josh has been receiving free Innova product.
3. Josh has been talking to Innova about getting back on the team for a few weeks now.
4. I have HEARD from reliable sources that he is ON the team. (Maybe they are wrong too?)

Josh did deny that he was actually ON the team. But when a company sends you free stuff, I call that sponsorship. Can you be sponsored and NOT on the team? Maybe? If so, that is a fine line to walk.

Here is my BIG retraction!!! My terminology was off. Maybe he isn't "officially" on the team yet and he is just some sort of new level of non-team, get free stuff, trial period, dip our toe in the water and see the response sponsored. If that is the case, yes, I was wrong about him "being on the team". Is that the proper thing I should be doing as a "journalist"? Considering the extent of my "journalism" is talking to pros (sometimes privately), and hosting a podcast where I get to drink bourbon (occasionally too much) and talk with my friends about a subject I love. FYI: I am gonna get things wrong at times.

And frankly I love that people come to us for their DG news. I have no clue where you stand with me, or Terry, or our podcast. I stopped caring how people felt about me more years ago than I can remember. I respect Josh. I respect Innova for taking a chance on him, because I think he has... or can earn people's trust back.

Thank you JV! Because there is a BIG difference between being officially sponsored and getting some free discs and shirts!

 

[BionicRib]

Conspiracy flash!



Maybe the team page was "leaked" to see how the disc golf community would react to the possibility of Josh being back on the team.

 

[colucc43]

I don't know if it was on the same course, but Devan Owens won Ledgestone in 2013.

it wasn't--in 2013 they played McNaughton twice and the Northwood Park; no Eureka Lake at that point, it was first played at 2015 Ledgestone during the final round.

 

[jvphobic]

Thank you JV! Because there is a BIG difference between being officially sponsored and getting some free discs and shirts!

Yeah, I don't know about that, this case is unique. If you are donating free shirts to a club, tournament, or org, sure I can see that. But when a company sends free stuff to a top pro, it sends a statement of support. It would be one thing if said company was trying to woo that person over, but in this situation Josh is a known Innova thrower (and prior sponsored player) already who wants to be sponsored again. And sending him free stuff sends a pretty strong statement about the intentions and support.

I think at this point we know what you are getting with Josh. If it were my decision I would jump in with both feet and find an appropriate team level for him now with incentives to move up in teams. But the way it is being done feels kinda like half-measures. And I think that at this point we know where the inevitable result is most likely going to be.

But, as I always say... it isn't my money and I am not going to tell people how to spend theirs. I may have opinions and suggestions, but ultimately it isn't my decision.

 

[lyleoross]

Conspiracy flash!



Maybe the team page was "leaked" to see how the disc golf community would react to the possibility of Josh being back on the team.

To my knowledge, there are at least two Conspiracy threads here. This is the Discette hates JV thread.

 

[lyleoross]

Thank you JV! Because there is a BIG difference between being officially sponsored and getting some free discs and shirts!

Wait! You mean Innova is sending out free shirts and discs to everyone? Damn, I told my kid to check the mail. Clearly he didn't!

 

[@iDiscGolf]

To my knowledge, there are at least two Conspiracy threads here. This is the Discette hates JV thread.

I'm for sure on her team. Because, she's right..

 

[lyleoross]

BTW, if you are sending shirts to someone, clearly it is your understanding that they might wear those shirts, thus representing your brand. If I were a snarky bugger, I might point out the hypocrisy of doing that, and then not stepping up to the plate and sponsoring that player. Of course, if I did that, Innova might not put the shirts and discs in the mail that I'm now convinced they are shipping to me, just cause I'm a mouth breather.

 

[lyleoross]

I'm for sure on her team. Because, she's right..

Miswrote, this is the @iDiscGolf and Discette hate JV thread. Thanks for the correction!

 

[jvphobic]

I don't think that Discette hates me! At least I hope not. I think that she took a little umbrage to the way I strongly came off as saying that Josh was sponsored already. We cool in my book.

Now iDiscGolf. That guy HAAAAATES me. :thmbup: He even doesn't like my beady eyes. haha.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

Sponsorship is providing your product for a player to use such that the provided product takes the place, partially or fully, for what the player has to purchase at market price. So while being "on the team" might be a more substantial and more official form of sponsorship, giving a player product to use in public tournament play is sponsorship.

 

[lyleoross]

BTW - I forgot that Josh Anthon builds cars for a living. Awesome job. The last car I rebuilt was in 1977, Toyota Corolla. Ah life was simple then.