Marshall Street PDGA Rules Letter

[tarel]

i want my turbo putt back

 

[Agricolae]

Too many nuggets to quote them all but, through the fog, it all becomes VERY clear. There are some things that simply can't be said. Listen to what IS being said. The answer is there.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think safety standards have to be based on actual tests that have indicated how much tissue damage is involved at a certain force, etc. No such disc golf testing has ever been done nor would be done regarding weight or flex. Likwise, I haven't heard whether golf balls have never been tested for safety either where the standard was based on how much impact a golf ball made on a person (sheep or pig carcass) at a certain velocity, etc. So weight and flex are simply material standards for discs and golf balls as I indicated before. They are lines drawn in the sand at a certain point for equipment consistency and only indirectly related to safety since they are inherently "unsafe" at any level if not used properly (except maybe a Blowfly.)

A javelin has certain specs for weight, balance point and probably springiness so all players are using ones with material specs in a certain range. A javelin heavier than spec weight will do more damage from a safety standpoint but that's not why the specs are set where they are.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Golf courses are on private land. If you get hit in the head with a golf ball, you weren't paying attention (just like taking a puck to the face at a hockey game). Disc golf courses are in public parks. You could get hit in the head while having a picnic thanks to an errant throw.

Chuck, you've stated yourself that the flex test was originally implemented as a safety measure. Look at your quote from post 3 that I linked. I appreciate what you're doing though.

Many golf courses are in public parks.

 

[Pwingles]

I still don't understand how its "safer" to be hit by a 172g boss than a 174g 10x aviar that wont bend.

would it be too much of a hassle for the flex specs to be slightly different as the wing gets bigger/sharper?

 

[john1bl]

(8)
Flexibility - The disc is held on its edge in a vertical position perpendicular to a scale with a precision
of at least 2 oz. (56.7 g). The upper rim of the disc is then gradually pressed down within 5 seconds.
The flexibility rating is determined at one of two points, depending on how the disc reacts to applied pressure.For discs that buckle, the flexibility rating corresponds to the point when the maximum weight is registered on the scale. For discs that do not buckle, the rating refers to the weight at the point when the inside rim-to-rim distance is at 50 percent of the disc's diameter. The temperature of the disc is to be no higher than 25 degrees Celsius (77 F) when the test is performed. The ratings of three samples are determined, and the median score is used as the final rating. Discs that are unable to be bent to 50% of their diameters fail the flexibility test. Manufacturers are required to send samples of the most rigid discs
they want considered for PDGA approval.

This is from the PDGA site.

By this standard nobody can say that any one disc is too stiff. ex during a round one player can't call a standard violation because of stiffness because there has to be 3 discs to do so.

 

[smyith]

One idea I had suggested was to create a standard rectangular plastic mold about the perimeter of a smartphone and maybe 10mm thick. Manufacturers would make this rectangular blank before each run of a new plastic compound (not necessarily color change) and flex test that in some way. If it met that flex test then all approved disc models that would be made from that material were good to go from a flex standpoint and the current test would be scrapped. The manufacturers would save the blanks for later testing again, possibly by the PDGA, if the question ever came up about that plastic compound not being flexible enough, but not a particular disc model being flexible enough.

How much does it cost to make a new hot stamp everytime a new plastic batch comes in? 10mm thick? are you trying to say only the rim has an effect? I like the idea but its incomplete. and still requires the manufactures to comply and admit they are using different plastic.

By this standard nobody can say that any one disc is too stiff. ex during a round one player can't call a standard violation because of stiffness because there has to be 3 discs to do so.

BOOM!!!! Suck it standards! Can you quack like a duck?

The problem is easy, in fact it is only 4 letters.....PDGA, the truth is I played the first 2 years of this sport unaware that a PDGA even existed. I'm not saying that they haven't done great stuff for this sport, but if someone was to start a better program with rules instead of misused guidelines, then a lot of disc golfers would switch.

Idk about this. People tend to be blindly loyal. Voting will do alot more to change the PDGA than complaining. Get the people who have been there forever out of there. Get fresh blood with good ideas in there. I see so much people complain about the PDGA, then come Vote time and they either didn't vote or voted for the same people again. I dont understand why people are so stupid when it comes to voting for people they allow to control them. :wall:

 

[nwdiscnoob]

I think safety standards have to be based on actual tests that have indicated how much tissue damage is involved at a certain force, etc. No such disc golf testing has ever been done nor would be done regarding weight or flex. Likwise, I haven't heard whether golf balls have never been tested for safety either where the standard was based on how much impact a golf ball made on a person (sheep or pig carcass) at a certain velocity, etc..

Sounds like a job for the Mythbusters, disc vs ball golf episode..

 

[john1bl]

Sounds like a job for the Mythbusters, disc vs ball golf episode..

I can see buster being hit by a cast iron avenger!!!!

 

[Cgkdisc]

The idea to eliminate flex specs for putters has been discussed. But so many players use putters as drivers that it may be difficult to determine what specs a disc should have to fall into the 'no flex standard' putter group. Also, as soon as you start slicing and dicing the specs into disc subgroups based on other disc specs, you're on a slippery slope such as having flex standards based on rim width, height and rim config. While it might make sense mathematically, I think it becomes more complicated without any data backing up why those subdivisions make any sense.

 

[jsc430]

No ones going to bend their discs to test the flexibility. They need to do away with the flexibility test and set the max weight for all discs at 180.

 

[NOSteveLA]

Many golf courses are in public parks.

Both of my local courses are.

 

[R-Intermediate]

I don't think there is a sensible way to test the flexibility rules in the field, so I would think that if this rule is to remain it would have to tested at the manufacturer level. There should be a way to determine a set of disc specs (rim width, cake pan height, and plate thickness) based on material parameters (the equivalent of tension and compression). I wouldn't think there would be more than a couple parameters needed to accomplish this. All manufacturers should have these parameters based on the material used, so they could plop this numbers into a handy equation and determine what specs are allowed with a certain material. This would only be an up front cost that would only have to updated rarely....I realize I'm just throwing farts at the wall, hoping one sticks but It seemed like a good idea prior to posting.

 

[Allurex]

One idea I had suggested was to create a standard rectangular plastic mold about the perimeter of a smartphone and maybe 10mm thick. Manufacturers would make this rectangular blank before each run of a new plastic compound (not necessarily color change) and flex test that in some way. If it met that flex test then all approved disc models that would be made from that material were good to go from a flex standpoint and the current test would be scrapped. The manufacturers would save the blanks for later testing again, possibly by the PDGA, if the question ever came up about that plastic compound not being flexible enough, but not a particular disc model being flexible enough.

So why isn't this a valid idea? It makes sense to me.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The idea may be feasible but as noted before, the PDGA does not yet feel compelled to act beyond what they've done over the past 30 years for spot checking production discs here and there along with reacting to and following up on complaints about specific discs that are sent to PDGA HQ.

 

[beereakfast]

Not a PDGA member, so chock this up as some more bad information (simply opinion) on the site.

Has it been proven that 'overweight' discs travel farther?
If it's up to the manufacturer, why is a mold never randomly spot testd to ensure cimpliance?

It seems vincictive and silly to ask for a player to prove he followed unenforced rules after he beat you. That's just lame.
Asking manufacturers to test every run seems almost as bad. We know there are incosistencies far too well.
Seems like the standard really does need to be changed to something enforceable.
This isn't to say Flywood discs should be allowed, just that the standard seems oversimplified. Come up with a formula, similar to weight vs. diameter.
Just my impression.

 

[jrawk]

somebody set up an online petition to remove the flex standard.... i'm too tired (and lazy) to do it.

Let's collect signatures and show the PDGA this rule is unpopular and unsupported.

 

[R-Intermediate]

Well sh*t then, I guess I defer to myself.

I see, in that light I'm unsure that a solution actually exists.

 

[smyith]

i'm too tired (and lazy) to do it.

sigh......and thus is the reason for all the issues of today. "lets do something! but i dont ask me to lead the way."

 

[ScottyLove]

wow... can I get the last 10 minute of my life back?

WHO REALLY CARES? I've been reading DGCR religiously now for a few weeks and this is by far the most worthless thread to date... and there are plenty of other nonsensical threads out there.