Nasty Spits...bad luck or bad putt?

[Scoot_er]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LplBP9-28b0

Here is the link. He basically hit the weak spot on a Mach III which is slight right of the pole where there is a 3in wide gap between the outer set and inner.

 

[mashnut]

I definitely understand the complaint, and I've had plenty of good putts that went right through the chains. I just don't think it's worth getting upset over something that's not going to change any time soon, and is a pretty equal disadvantage to everyone.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Think of it this way. Would you be happy if you went to a ball golf course and all of the holes were just a little smaller than normal or the shapes were slightly out of round or had notches in the circle? Would that affect your rating of that course?

 

[optidiscic]

So all this has just demonstrated that pros disagree about what makes a good course as much as everyone else does. So one guy's pet peeve may be baskets and another might not care as much. You can get that info from anyone's review....old worn out baskets etc. So one guy may mark the course a 3 and the other would mark it a 4.5. So who do you blame when you missed a great course because a certain pro had a few spit outs when he played. Be careful what you wish for. Again....I think it's a better idea to somehow classify what type of course it is Championship/Expert/Rec/beginner and not think so much about who is reviewing the course.

 

[Beable]

Think of it this way. Would you be happy if you went to a ball golf course and all of the holes were just a little smaller than normal or the shapes were slightly out of round or had notches in the circle? Would that affect your rating of that course?

I read the other thread. I think you made your point pretty well. And anything you can do to make the baskets better is great in my book. But until then, we're stuck with whatever the target is on the course we're playing.

As much I like watching the pros play in vids or whatever, the only thing that came to mind after watching him miss that putt and blame the equipment for me was QQ. He missed, it's as simple as that. There is an element of randomness in all sports and he encountered some.

 

[Dave242]

Feldberg makes comparison of a basketball hoop never bouncing the ball back out after the ball goes through. I think that is a faulty comparison. It would be a better comparison if we used garbage cans to shoot into.

A better analogy of the quirkiness of things is the putting green on golf courses. Lots of times invisible things like the grain of the grass, slight undulations, a gust of wind, etc curve the rolling ball away from the hole during what appears to be a perfect putt. Its part of the game. You gotta overcome it and move on.

There is luck in all sports that must be overcome to triumph. The best players find a way to reduce the risk of luck playing a factor in the outcome.

My comments apply to well maintained baskets used for tournament play.

 

[timg]

I'd equate the through the chains thing to a rim out in ball golf. No reason to change the holes, just don't putt the ball so hard next time.

 

[Cgkdisc]

For course ratings I don't think people are knocking down a course rating because even our best baskets are not catching as consistently as they should, but comparing course layouts that have our best basket models with those that may be lighter weight, homemade or old with some damage. Personally, I never care about baskets when evaluating a course design. But course design is only one aspect included in a review and the quality of course facilities like baskets and tees do matter in the overall rating at least for me.

 

[prerube]

For course ratings I don't think people are knocking down a course rating because even our best baskets are not catching as consistently as they should, but comparing course layouts that have our best basket models with those that may be lighter weight, homemade or old with some damage. Personally, I never care about baskets when evaluating a course design. But course design is only one aspect included in a review and the quality of course facilities like baskets and tees do matter in the overall rating at least for me.

Baskets shouldn't matter. Dave242 rated a course with no baskets :\ and people applauded his..."creativity"

 

[Dave242]

Au contraire! Baskets should matter......if they matter to the individual reviewer. I am much more about fairway and "putting green" design (as in ~75-85% of the basis for my rating). But that is for me....and my reviews.

 

[magictenor1]

If the baskets were bad I would mention it and take it into account when giving my rating, the same for tee pads etc. I am pretty much like Dave when I review ie the most important thing to me is how much I personally like to play there. But I do modify ratings based on tees, baskets, amenities etc.

 

[prerube]

If the baskets were bad I would mention it and take it into account when giving my rating, the same for tee pads etc. I am pretty much like Dave when I review ie the most important thing to me is how much I personally like to play there. But I do modify ratings based on tees, baskets, amenities etc.

But how do you modify your ratings when you don't see the baskets or the tee signs because they are put away for the winter
(I guess this is just being carried over from the other thread)

 

[Scoot_er]

I'd equate the through the chains thing to a rim out in ball golf. No reason to change the holes, just don't putt the ball so hard next time.

Did you see how soft his putt was?

And for the most part the soft putts get spit all the way through more ofter than a firm putt.

I am already working on a system to stop this which you can sell to TDs to take to the tournaments they run because according to Ken Climo "the baskets are the ost unprofessional part of the sport".

There was a meeting of 20-30 top players a few years back in Kansas City and the baskets were one of the main issues we discussed about fixing.

I have seen many hundreds of dollars lost because of a bad spit that cost someone a tournament.

 

[timg]

Did you see how soft his putt was?

I wasn't necessarily referring to the video, more the ball golf example I mentioned. Similar to what Dave242 said earlier, there is always a slight element of luck even with a really good shot be it ball golf, disc golf or just about any other sport.

That said, I don't have a problem with improving basket design.

 

[Scoot_er]

I wasn't necessarily referring to the video, more the ball golf example I mentioned. Similar to what Dave242 said earlier, there is always a slight element of luck even with a really good shot be it ball golf, disc golf or just about any other sport.

Yeah but seeing 2 min in a 4-some during an 18 hole round is not slight luck. Heck like I said some like Mach IIs will spit the same person 3 times in a round.

The Titan is the best basket for sure with 90% less spits than anything else I have played on and supposedly the PDGA finally approved it.

 

[tallpaul]

I have given props to the Titan buckets when I get the chance.....PROPS TO THE TITAN BUCKETS! Dave Mac and crew are also designing and installing some very nice courses in the St. Louis and surrounding areas. I don't have any special Gateway connection or anything; just that I've spent a fair amount of time playing is his neck of the woods in 2009 and have hung with lots of locals from that area; most of whom have no special love for Dave; other than the fact that he's doing good things for the area.

 

[Dave242]

Yeah but seeing 2 min in a 4-some during an 18 hole round is not slight luck. Heck like I said some like Mach IIs will spit the same person 3 times in a round.

I'm not sure if there are enough stats gathered by anyone for anyone to saying anything statistically meaningful about spitouts, so what I am saying is speculation:

If spitouts are that frequent, then over a 4 round tournament things should equal out to a point that the best performer for the weekend will win. If it is consistently happening less to one competitor, he obviously has a skill that others should learn if they want to put themselves in the best position to win.

 

[mashnut]

Feldberg makes comparison of a basketball hoop never bouncing the ball back out after the ball goes through. I think that is a faulty comparison. It would be a better comparison if we used garbage cans to shoot into.

A better analogy of the quirkiness of things is the putting green on golf courses. Lots of times invisible things like the grain of the grass, slight undulations, a gust of wind, etc curve the rolling ball away from the hole during what appears to be a perfect putt. Its part of the game. You gotta overcome it and move on.

There is luck in all sports that must be overcome to triumph. The best players find a way to reduce the risk of luck playing a factor in the outcome.

My comments apply to well maintained baskets used for tournament play.

Well said. A little luck here and there is definitely part of the game, and I just don't let it affect the rest of my round. I've seen every player I've played with have lucky bounces help and hurt them, and it all evens out over time. It would be nice to keep seeing improvements in basket technology, but I'm not holding my breath for all the older baskets already in the ground to be replaced any time soon. It does frustrate me to have baskets with broken or missing chains, or bent out of shape, but as long as the baskets are relatively consistent through the whole course it just doesn't bother me.

 

[solomon.trenton]

I'm not sure if there are enough stats gathered by anyone for anyone to saying anything statistically meaningful about spitouts, so what I am saying is speculation:

If spitouts are that frequent, then over a 4 round tournament things should equal out to a point that the best performer for the weekend will win. If it is consistently happening less to one competitor, he obviously has a skill that others should learn if they want to put themselves in the best position to win.

i totally agree with this. i know i am not great at putting but still try my best to make the "perfect putt", even though it almost never happens do to spit outs

 

[bikinjack]

I'm not sure if there are enough stats gathered by anyone for anyone to saying anything statistically meaningful about spitouts, so what I am saying is speculation:

If spitouts are that frequent, then over a 4 round tournament things should equal out to a point that the best performer for the weekend will win. If it is consistently happening less to one competitor, he obviously has a skill that others should learn if they want to put themselves in the best position to win.

I can't imagine it ever being said any better than this.