Nose angle, wrist angle -- When to do what?

[Meillo]

Hoi,

I suffer a lot from nose-up throws. I see it in the flight and in the little distance increase drivers give me, compared to mids and putters.

I have a general understanding how the result should be but I don't know exactly what I should do when and how. There seems to be few instructions on wrist positions and movements, apart from the hardly helpful statement: you should throw nose-down.

Questions I have:

- Is your wrist locked in the same position all the time during the throw?
- Or is it relaxed at the beginning and you push it actively down at the point of release?
- You probably don't rotate it inwards or outwards, or are you?

I guess that my wrist becomes relaxed at the point of release (because tension does not go well with the swing mechanics), and this causes nose up at the release. Thus, it seems to not matter much what I do with my wrist at the beginning of the throw.

I've had some better nose angle results when I rotated the wrist outwards at the end, but that doesn't seem to be the way to go, besides, it reduced my accuracy. I also had some better results with the thumb positioned more towards the center of the disc and rotating the wrist rather inwards, but this feels unnatural for me. Normally my thumb is positioned over the tip of my index finger.

As a side note: I know that my joints are generally less lose than those of others. It could thus be that I cannot as easily tilt my wrist down. That, however, shouldn't be an excuse.


The question I'm asking is: When should I do what with my wrist? When is it lose, when is it tight? Is it only tight or is there an active push in a direction? (How does that match the tension und loseness of the rest of the arm during the phases of the throw?)

The more detailled the instructions are, the better. It doesn't matter if there are different ways; I can try all of them and see what fits best for me.

Thanks a lot.

 

[auzcar]

I struggled a lot with nose up throws as well and I tried a lot of stuff. In the end it turned out that I needed to change my grip and really force the disc to sit very nose down in my hand. In the beginning it felt weird and uncomfortable but that went away with time and practice. I also find that it's easier for me to throw nose down with a 3 finger power grip, leaving the pinky out.

This is just me and my unique hands but it worked for me. I'll link a video that I think is a good way to get a feel of how the disc should be aligned in your hand for a nose down throw. The video was uploaded long after I had fixed my problems but I think it's good nevertheless. Personally I thought that I had a good grip since I had experimented a lot with it before, but I was wrong.

https://youtu.be/Mc0wgR2voiU

 

[Sheep]

That overthrow video is pretty helpful.

And if you watch Feldbergs video on grip stuff. He clearly states that the pinky finger is the one that controls the nose angle.
And it makes a lot of sense when you get into some weird stuff and whatever, putting as well.

With my nose up struggle I learned a few things, I'll share them now.

Some people throw nose down naturually.
Make sure you take these people in the woods and beat them senseless, then continue your round. These people are the scum of the earth for not having to struggle like us mortals out here.
J/K
Don't beat them up, just hate them a bit, because they just do it naturally, while we struggle. Jerks.


Okay. I digress.

There are 2 really main things that come into play with nose angle. Grip and follow through.

But were not talking about your arm, we are talking about your hand follow through.

It's important that we set ourselves up for success with our grip, which as stated, a lot of people are finding that 3 finger grip with the pinky on the rim to help push the nose down being what works, and I'll agree. I don't quite put my pinky out, but its almost out, and it really helps me push the nose down, as the pinky is one of the main controls of that.

Secondly, our follow through, but not our arm, our hand and wrist.

It's important that when we follow through we keep the hand from flipping the wrong way, you can essentially do EVERYTHING right, grip perfect swing perfect, follow through perfect. But what you do is pop your wrist the wrong direction in the throw and that baby is going nose up. For me with my carpal tunnel, its very difficult to maintain this.
And as well, this is where I struggle with teaching the door jam drill. Because the happy medium I had to find to get my wrist to work right with my elbow was throwing really high up on the chest to make sure I could maintain my wrist the best as possible.
Which isn't my strongest core area, but it gave me the nose control, and in all honesty, I'd rather have good nose control and less power, that tons of power and no nose control.


So, To go over things once more.
Remember to hate all players who throw nose down naturally.
Work on a good grip that sets you up for success.
Maintain proper follow through with the hand and wrist.

 

[Meillo]

Thanks for the video link. It explains everything I've thought of already again and leaves it still open how to get it done. :-D But maybe that's the answer: You have to figure it out yourself. Maybe I already know everything I need to know and now simply have to practice a lot and work on it.

I use a similar grip as you describe, thus I'd say that this problem is fixed already.

Maybe you're right that other players have to struggle much less with this issue. But if so, it doesn't help me neither. So, let's do some field work!

 

[MrLia]

That overthrow video is pretty helpful.

And if you watch Feldbergs video on grip stuff. He clearly states that the pinky finger is the one that controls the nose angle.
And it makes a lot of sense when you get into some weird stuff and whatever, putting as well.

With my nose up struggle I learned a few things, I'll share them now.

Some people throw nose down naturually.
Make sure you take these people in the woods and beat them senseless, then continue your round. These people are the scum of the earth for not having to struggle like us mortals out here.
J/K
Don't beat them up, just hate them a bit, because they just do it naturally, while we struggle. Jerks.


Okay. I digress.

There are 2 really main things that come into play with nose angle. Grip and follow through.

But were not talking about your arm, we are talking about your hand follow through.

It's important that we set ourselves up for success with our grip, which as stated, a lot of people are finding that 3 finger grip with the pinky on the rim to help push the nose down being what works, and I'll agree. I don't quite put my pinky out, but its almost out, and it really helps me push the nose down, as the pinky is one of the main controls of that.

Secondly, our follow through, but not our arm, our hand and wrist.

It's important that when we follow through we keep the hand from flipping the wrong way, you can essentially do EVERYTHING right, grip perfect swing perfect, follow through perfect. But what you do is pop your wrist the wrong direction in the throw and that baby is going nose up. For me with my carpal tunnel, its very difficult to maintain this.
And as well, this is where I struggle with teaching the door jam drill. Because the happy medium I had to find to get my wrist to work right with my elbow was throwing really high up on the chest to make sure I could maintain my wrist the best as possible.
Which isn't my strongest core area, but it gave me the nose control, and in all honesty, I'd rather have good nose control and less power, that tons of power and no nose control.


So, To go over things once more.
Remember to hate all players who throw nose down naturally.
Work on a good grip that sets you up for success.
Maintain proper follow through with the hand and wrist.

keep the hand from flipping the wrong way?
I tend to keep supinate my wrist, I suppose that is wrong? and should pronate instead?

 

[SmileyBoy]

Pour the coffee during reachback and keep pouring the coffee until disc rips out from your fingers.

 

[Rastnav]

Caveat: I'm just a steadily improving noodle arm with not too much experience. Best bet is to video yourself and get a form review. These are just all things that helped me.

My nose up issues got better with two things; The first was already mentioned, getting a grip that actually lets you get the disc nose down.

The key thing is that this isn't primarily due to manipulating the wrist. The wrist closes and then opens and its going to open naturally into a certain positom that's determined by your grip and your swing (when throwing near full power).

So, my question would be, what's your forearm angle, relative to your elbow, through the swing? Does your elbow tend to dip below your hand through the swing? That's going to lead to a nose up release even if you have fixed your grip.

Another possibility, do you ever release "late" and see a much more nose down flight? You may just be releasing early most of the time. Your hand hasn't fully rotated to a nose down position. That might be thebproduct of trying to force your rotation to be super quick (spinning).

 

[Sad2980]

I've also had a really hard time getting correct nose angle. I think a lot of my nose angle issues have more to do with improper swing mechanics than the angle or movement of my wrist.

Through video review, I've noticed that pulling early creates nose up problems in my throw because it causes an inconsistent swing plane (i.e. "swooping at the hit). Timing the throw correctly allows the disc to stay on plane because the active movement of the arm is much shorter. I think this can be seen in pros who bring the disc from high to low, but appear to engage the arm at the hit making the swing plane consistent from engagement to release.

I also think staying balanced has a large effect on nose angle. Throwing without getting your weight forward into the plant can cause a nose up angle due to the swing plane going from low to high. Some advice that has helped me is to try to keep your shoulders parallel with the ground. This advice helps me to keep my weight balanced through the throw and causes me to have a swing plane that is closer to being parallel with the ground.

For me, a correct nose angle only happens when proper timing and good balance create a good swing plane.

 

[Sheep]

When I get my shop back, truck in here, I'll do a quick video on some of the nose angle stuff.

It's like I said, anyone who does it naturally, grr on you.
For those of us who have to try harder, there are TONS of factors in what causes it, but you gotta think through your swing backwards and some stuff becomes more apparent.

This is definitely a more "video" easy topic.