So try drive weight forward into brace more as a cue? I used to lean back too much when coiling which SW pointed out a while ago and I improved that by looking at how much of body crosses a vertical line up from back foot, but I probably stopped short. I've thought about trying a wider brace for a more diagonal brace leg angle so I can drive more into it.
The power side of the swing is started from the weight shift and the brace. The swing is not started from trying to spin our back leg in and squish the bug throwing our hips into the shot.
When you set your body up properly in the backswing and have it loaded, when you brace, your body will naturally uncoil and generate tremendous amounts of power with almost no effort.
When we try and introduce things like squish the bug. And maybe you're not familiar with this as ... I had no clue what it meant forever... But it's where you try and drive rotation with your rear leg by spinning it in. This will cause your hips to rotate really fast, but destroys your brace and causes over rotation and bad timing.
So, if you over rotate your hips early, your shoulders will over rotate, then you will round and throw late. Which is a form of rounding.
You have to remember the swing builds from the brace, actions that try and "spin" you faster are going to destroy the swing power and kill the swing and cause timing issues. This is why things like the double move work, but are bad. same with squish the bug, you can throw with both of these methods fairly successfully, but you're looking at higher injury issues, and you're using high effort low efficiency methods to throw that are far harder to keep in time.
I'm reading, lol. It's interesting, I'm still trying to figure out how much is under the rounding umbrella term.
So for you, collapsed shoulder is not automatically rounding unless the disc is trapped behind body?
I think this from needs a stickied dictionary post (is there one? I'd read it) where the most active form gurus agree on a definition. Seems like there's a lot of assembling around terms that SW popularized but also seems like a lot of people may have some amount of differences in opinion.
Maybe rounding should be broken into a couple types.
When it comes to some of this stuff, we all have our own.. views on it, but generally stay in the same ball parkish in here. I get a bit more technical on some other things as I want to put really more proper better definitions to them vs continuing with poor descriptors.
I think with rounding there was a small effort to try and justify some swing types by trying not to say the "pro" was rounding. ... well, everyone wants to justify something I guess. I'm just looking to try and call it more accurately.
If we collapse the shoulder and the disc is behind us and behind us on timing and has to come around us, this is the most classic definition of rounding. Because were "bringing the disc around us" vs keeping space and getting the disc in the more "out in out" pattern.
If were looking at over rotation in the shoulders and the hit comes late, that's rounding as well. Because while we might show the disc and our posture to the target in the back swing, the "out" position. When we come in to the pocket, we have already rounded passed the target line and never technically come back out on to the target line again rounding passed it. This is what you're doing. It's over rotation causing a late release which is the more technical way to say it. but I still consider it rounding, because while the actual disc golf throw isn't a linear line like ... people taught for years, our baseline down the target line still "is" linear. So you round off it and throw late. because at some point you're still pulling the disc around you vs driving the disc down the target line.
Good lord, do I always sound this complicated when I explain things?
my coffee cup is empty too. and I'm almost out of coffee.
Ya, this definitely has diverged way too much from the original thread title haha.
A fortunate unfortunate.
I think the main idea which got it off topic was to point out to first collect good data to put the plan in to use that the base of the swing needed to be further into spec to make the data more usable.
So, if you have a really out of time swing, that data might show up looking fine on tech disc and what not, but not become real world practical in any sense with an out of time swing.
Thus if the swing was to clean up over time, the data would quickly become incorrect.
Which took us into "small changes in form have drastic effects"
Which is true. But if you're on a baseline with data, you'll have better results.
