OB rule and benefit of the doubt...

[JoakimBL]

All I see is casual water.

 

[Timeetyo]

Not sure how they handle it there. But a "fair" way would be to mark it on the closest inbounds area where you can take a stance on the playing surface.

(Not that I'd recommend this...but):

Wouldn't the top of the basket be IB stacked surface? So i could mark it on the basket, stand ON the basket, and drop it down in.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I see a buncr with a drop zone.

 

[JoakimBL]

QA2 applies nicely to cover this.

If you designate the basket as a playing surface, which I assume you do i.e. your reference to QA2, then it follows that the disc on top of the basket should be relocated to inside the basket, and therefor DROT should be considered good. Unless the top of the basket is yet another playing surface, in which case the disc should never be placed under the basket but the player should take his stance on top of the basket.
Or am I misunderstanding your point?

 

[Cgkdisc]

(Not that I'd recommend this...but):

Wouldn't the top of the basket be IB stacked surface? So i could mark it on the basket, stand ON the basket, and drop it down in.

I would say the target is a special case of an inbounds playing surface where a player cannot take a stance and must relocate to the nearest playing surface where they can take a stance and not be standing in OB. A parallel situation would be a disc landing in a tree directly above a giant tree trunk where straight down to the ground is in the middle of the trunk so they have to move to the edge of the trunk to mark their lie.

 

[araytx]

We have had some where the basket is placed on the intersection of OB paths with the grass leading up to the basket as the fairway. I think it rewards playing smart instead of just always rewarding the long distance throwers constantly running the basket for aces.
There is one that plays long and then has a basket on a 10'x10' concrete slab that is OB. So there is risk throwing long and going for it vs. being smart and laying up on the edge of the slab and putting in.

I see what you're saying there about the challenges and risk/reward; but everything you mentioned there can be designed properly with the same risks/rewards, and without the basket being inside of the OB.

 

[araytx]

QA2 applies nicely to cover this.

No it doesn't. Look at the DROT situation ...

The top of the basket is a playing surface??? The inner tray not a playing surface??? come on, it's basically poor design.

 

[Karl]

Maybe another reason why DROTs should count? :clap:

 

[biscoe]

i like this design, but say you landed on top of the basket, would that be OB since you would mark your lie below the basket?

If the water is designated as OB then imo DROT is OB in this case. Although aesthetically pleasing this basket position is incredibly silly.

 

[jjpitt29]

If the water is designated as OB then imo DROT is OB in this case. Although aesthetically pleasing this basket position is incredibly silly.

qft!

This design would be fun if using buncr rule or making the water casual. But making water OB, this becomes silly if not stupid, IMO.

 

[Steve West]

How about this: DROT is OB, but so is a disc that is in the tray. Everybody takes at least a one-throw OB penalty on that hole. So, that's fair, albeit weird.

And, since probably nobody added that unavoidable OB penalty, every player gets two more penalty throws at the end of the round for recording an incorrect score.

 

[Karl]

While this discussion of the basket amidst OB is a bit off-topic regarding the OP's statement, having a basket OB is - while different - not THAT much different than having any other shot (be it a 350 ft drive or a 120 ft upshot) being 1 inch "off" and thus incurring an OB penalty. It just happens to be on the putt! Now I would think that 18 such holes would pretty much revolutionize / evolve the sport into something else (and I personally wouldn't like it as much), but having ONE such "severely 'penalized' shot" in the putting game is not that weird. Why NOT have such? Why should OB be the sole domain of the "long shots"? Some may think it as "tricked up" but where do you draw the line? Each person's line is different. The designer of that course may (by some) be "crazy", but sometimes I think he's crazy like a fox. It's not like if you miss your disc gets chewed up by a Asplundh chipper-shredder (incurring everyone who misses a $8 (or more) penalty)!

Karl

 

[JoakimBL]

I'm guessing the next hole involves a giant clowns head, and you have to put through its mouth that opens and closes? And the hole after that, your drive needs to pass the wing of a giant windmill.

It's a total gimmick. And now a freak spit out is suddenly a two throw swing instead of one.

 

[Dan Ensor]

If the chains are the last place my disc was in bounds, but then goes in the drink, am I holed out (with penalty)?

 

[Steve West]

If the chains are the last place my disc was in bounds, but then goes in the drink, am I holed out (with penalty)?

I don't the chains are in bounds.

I can't make a case that the basket or chains or top is a playing surface: "A surface, generally the ground, which is capable of supporting the player and from which a stance can reasonably be taken." So, the stacked playing surface theory doesn't work.

If the TD put a basket in OB, and did not say the part under the basket was in bounds, I think every disc that holes out is OB.

 

[kenjiac]

i like this design, but say you landed on top of the basket, would that be OB since you would mark your lie below the basket?

Yes it would be ob mark it from where your putt crossed the creek

 

[Dan Ensor]

I don't the chains are in bounds.

I can't make a case that the basket or chains or top is a playing surface: "A surface, generally the ground, which is capable of supporting the player and from which a stance can reasonably be taken." So, the stacked playing surface theory doesn't work.

If the TD put a basket in OB, and did not say the part under the basket was in bounds, I think every disc that holes out is OB.

I don't see how I could hole out OB ...

A player whose disc is out-of-bounds shall receive one penalty throw. The player may elect to play the next throw from: 1. The previous lie; or,
2. A lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds, even if the direction takes the lie closer to the target; or,
3. Within the designated drop zone, if provided.

It doesn't really allow for there to not be a "next throw".

Out-of-bounds An area designated by the Director from which a disc may not be played, and within which a stance may not be taken. The out-of-bounds line extends a plane vertically upward and downward. The out-of-bounds line is part of the out-of-bounds area

You can't play a disc that's OB. So you can't hole out OB. IMO.

 

[jjpitt29]

You can't play a disc that's OB. So you can't hole out OB. IMO.

Everyone that plays this holes gets 'infinity' for a score. Can never complete the hole.

 

[araytx]

We have had some where the basket is placed on the intersection of OB paths with the grass leading up to the basket as the fairway. I think it rewards playing smart instead of just always rewarding the long distance throwers constantly running the basket for aces.
There is one that plays long and then has a basket on a 10'x10' concrete slab that is OB. So there is risk throwing long and going for it vs. being smart and laying up on the edge of the slab and putting in.

SO, mrDROCK, there seems to be a lot of support for that being a terrible design.

So back to the OP's question (besides the terrible design). I don't think you can "guess" a disc to have hit across the bank without some evidence as others have stated... needs to be a divot or something in the sight line to let you know it definitely came across to the other side. Otherwise mark from near side.

on a side note, I have also seen another terrible design (calling just the water OB in a situation like this) where there was so little water where he went out that the meter relief, even from the near side, could possibly be taken to the far side. It's up to one meter perpendicular in any direction.

 

[Steve West]

I don't see how I could hole out OB ...

It doesn't really allow for there to not be a "next throw".

You can't play a disc that's OB. So you can't hole out OB. IMO.

Nothing in 802.05 Holing Out says the disc needs to be in bounds.

You don't need to play the disc that's lying in the basket OB. You have completed the hole. Now, that disc has the same status as the ones in your bag.