Overstable Mid-Range...what are my choices?

[K-Dog 19]

D, X, Z, or Esp Wasps - Mod. Overstable

Dx, or Star Gator - Not Stupid Overstable, but still quite overstable

S, H, or E Demon - Overstable!

D Drone - Overstable!

Dx, or KC Pro Whippet - Overstable!

Dx Viper - Overstable!

Sentinal MF - Not Stupid Overstable, but still quite overstable

Esp Touq(ue) - Not Stupid Overstable, but still quite overstable (OOP)

Or you could just trow a Driver at 60-70% power

P.S. What is a

Evolution X

:?:

 

[thatdirtykid]

I have a champ whippet that i need to go pick up from a friends house if you have 25$ (or a couple discs) to trade ;-)

 

[cmlasley]

Throwing a driver, and taking some speed off it? I feel that I'm more consistant if I'm able to throw pretty much the same speed on my drives only changing discs for more D or less D.

I've been using my Predator more and more lately for these shots and just controlling the distance with the amount of height I put on the throw. You have to consider the skip however.

 

[Bradley Walker]

If you'd like some parallels, check out what's happening at the Masters. Cool temps + super wind conditions = 76 SA.

Very observant.

I may have something to add here. As I said a few times before, I have been flying model airplanes competitively for many years. You may not realize I fly CONTROL LINE models, not remote control (you know those guys who fly with wires and handle?) Our models are really part kite, and greatly affected by the wind.

I can attest that a cool wind is much more powerful than a hot wind. Cool air is thick, hot air is thin. Move the air and the density comes into play.

A winter 10 MPH wind will be like a summer 20 MPH wind. I have flown in high winds in the winter and felt like I was flying in a tornado, and then flown in the same MPH wind in the winter and was nearly unaffected.

Discs appear to lose a great deal more distance into a cold wind. Putters and mids, the same but to much greater degree. Conversely, the downwind bonus on a putter is greater in the winter.

Everything goes faster as the air thins out when the temperatures rise.

Cold+high winds =double fuggin tough.

Add in high humidity (which increases drag but lowers air density---water displaces air)and it gets to be triple fuggin tough.

I would think that learning to throw drivers in really bad conditions is not a bad idea.

 

[some call me...tim?]

I got an S Demon from Marshall Street a while ago because they had it on sale for $5. I bought pretty much as a "eh, it's $5, why not?" kind of a disc, but I can safely say that that was a good 5 bucks spent. It's earned a regular spot in my bag as a go to mid-range that'll definitely hold a hyzer. I use it for spike hyzers and sidearm hyzers a lot. Lately I've been experimenting with skip shots for approaches, and this disc performs really well for that, even on bad throws, it'll still end up better than I expected most of the time.

 

[black udder]

i can't imagine needing more than a Z wasp. I had some fun with a Drone, bu the bottom line is why introduce a new mold into the bag for so few situations?

I'd stick with the wasp - if it's getting beat, do what Blake says to do with the dx - get two and use them interchangeably.

Either do that or just use a driver or throw some hyzer on it.

I've found that without my off-axis torque, I don't need to throw discs as stable as I did last year.

 

[Granduter]

If you have to have an overstable mid then I like the demon. It isn't in my bag because I would rather master the predator and the roc than add another mold. I found there really wasn't a shot that a roc or pred couldn't cover.

I do love the demon a lot though, I have 3 of them that won't be traded, they are such good feeling discs in the s-plastic. It is probably one of my favorite feeling discs i have ever thrown

 

[thatdirtykid]

Throwing a driver, and taking some speed off it? I feel that I'm more consistant if I'm able to throw pretty much the same speed on my drives only changing discs for more D or less D.

learning to throw every shot w/ few discs will teach you so much more than throwing a disc for every shot.

 

[black udder]

Dirty - my interpretation was close to the way I throw - not a disc for every shot, but instead of throwing a driver at 60% or 70%, throw a midrange 80-90% like you would a longer hole with a driver.

For me - I can throw a driver over 300' if I get a good shot, whereas a midrange isn't going past 300' on a good shot. So for a hole 275-300', I'd rather throw a midrange.

I know somebody who doesn't even throw midranges, just throttles up or down as necessary. Either way works, but using a midrange for less distance is more in line with traditional ball golf.

 

[thatdirtykid]

i bet if tiger had to throw his five iron down the fairway, he would learn everything the five iron could do OR Golfers dont change the ball they are using, you really cant compare the disc to ball as far as discussing many aspects of shot selection. i believe discing down and clubbing down are incomparable, because a golf ball is a projectile and velocity and angle of flight are the two main contributors to determining distance.

However I do understand the benifits to using an overstable mid, and am not completely against it. I did carry a demon for a while for those reasons, and still carry an X wasp which is as overstable as i can imagine needing.

when i carried a demon there was a shot or two which i justified carrying it for, however both those shots can be performed as well if not better with a nose up wizard toss, but w/ the wizard it feels more like I am controlling when the shot fades, instead of relying on the discs stability.

you cant throw a nose up shot like this controllably into a headwind, because of too much lift. but if I am throwing into a headwind, I would rather throw a faster disc (driver) to compensate for the simulated added speed.

for a tailwind, the same shot can be achieved by leveling the disc, throwing less nose up.

as I said though, i am not completely against throwing overstable mids, but its just another mold to learn, and are more of a specialty disc than an overstable driver.

 

[black udder]

i bet if tiger had to throw his five iron down the fairway, he would learn everything the five iron could do OR Golfers dont change the ball they are using, you really cant compare the disc to ball as far as discussing many aspects of shot selection. i believe discing down and clubbing down are incomparable, because a golf ball is a projectile and velocity and angle of flight are the two main contributors to determining distance.

While I agree that the concept as a whole isn't comparable, you know as well as anybody, Tiger doesn't pull out the 1 Wood for a 150 yard hole either, does he? He clubs down. Could he learn to use that 1 wood to hit a shot 150 yards? Sure, but why?

You could putt with your driver too - and claim that people that don't just haven't learned their discs as well as they should.

I believe part of the reason people do tee off with midranges or putters is the club down factor - it's a full stroke throw with a disc that won't go past a certain point. But that's as far as the club down theory can really go.

The analogies between disc golf and ball golf are inevitable (drivers, putters, holes, etc.). There are too many named similarities for there not to be - however, I do agree that they are all limited analogies.

It's very possible that since you have so much more distance with your discs that the concept isn't as applicable. Is is for me though (at least at this time).

 

[garublador1]

I can attest that a cool wind is much more powerful than a hot wind. Cool air is thick, hot air is thin. Move the air and the density comes into play.

A winter 10 MPH wind will be like a summer 20 MPH wind. I have flown in high winds in the winter and felt like I was flying in a tornado, and then flown in the same MPH wind in the winter and was nearly unaffected.

Discs appear to lose a great deal more distance into a cold wind. Putters and mids, the same but to much greater degree. Conversely, the downwind bonus on a putter is greater in the winter.

Everything goes faster as the air thins out when the temperatures rise.

Cold+high winds =double fuggin tough.

Add in high humidity (which increases drag but lowers air density---water displaces air)and it gets to be triple fuggin tough.

I would think that learning to throw drivers in really bad conditions is not a bad idea.

That's interesting. I hadn't made that correlation in my mind before. It makes me not feel as bad about how I threw this last weekend.

I did notice that my spike hyzers with my really overstable driver were easily my most reliable and easy shot to pull off.

 

[dflaschiii]

as far as overstable midranges...

About a month ago I bought a heavy DX Viper because I didn't like throwing my Rocs into headwinds. This is a disc that not many people use, but I've found it to be useful in windy situations. It's as wide as the Roc and very overstable. In calm conditions it's too stable and not fast enough to be of much use unless you can whip a really smooth and fast flex shot (and there are better discs for that anyway). But in wind it holds up nicely for 325 and less, so even though it's technically a driver, I use it in the same situations as my midranges.

 

[Donkeypuncher1]

I was looking for a overstable midrange for some of the same reasons, but quickly changed my mind. I had a z wasp, which is probably one of the most overstable mids I've played with. I was depending too much on the disc to make my shot for me instead of learning how to manipulate a stable disc to turn how I want it. I guess I'm just getting to the point where I want to control the shot instead of the disc controlling it. I'm gathering up a lot of stable drivers and mids, which is actually working a lot better and I seem to get more shots on the basket.

 

[Glock231]

Didn't we just have this whole discussion, with basically the same title???

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2465

Yeah, we did.

 

[Donkeypuncher1]

Maybe the horse wasn't quite dead yet

 

[thatdirtykid]

....lol



and for the DX viper. I would rather throw one of those, or a whippet even over a demon. The viper wether innova calls it anymore is a driver. was even a record holder for a while (not that i was playing when it did though :roll: ) I can maipulate a vipers flight much more than a demon or drone.

 

[ner021]

I carry an S plastic Demon for a few different shots. Most of my drivers are a slicker plastic, so on tight approaches through and around trees, I'll hyzer or anhyzer and let the Demon flex its way through the gaps. The S plastic thrown gently tends to stick near the basket, which is good.

The Demon then also handles the duties of any 250ft shots with a headwind, or shots thrown forehand. The extra stability of the Demon helps my forehand to be predictable, even if it's a shot I'll only throw once or twice a round.

 

[Blake_T1]

Throwing a driver, and taking some speed off it? I feel that I'm more consistant if I'm able to throw pretty much the same speed on my drives only changing discs for more D or less D.

heh... throwing with angles, height, etc.

i rarely change power, i only change runup, grip strength, etc.

demons and drones have very little range control unless you have a super big arm.

i'll take an overstable pig of a driver over any one of those. hand me a stack of z preds, whippets, vipers, x-clones, etc. and a 15 mph headwind on a 180' shot and i'll put it in the circle on 15 completely different lines.