Paige Pierce #29190

[Nick Pacific]

Just an observation but does anybody actually watch Paige throw? Like she whips through so hard that her whole upper body will twist well before her legs and knees do. She's young, but wouldn't be surprised if dealing with injuries. It's kind of like the whole thing with Simon, there's a point where people are throwing "too hard." Just my opinion of course.

Her form is for the most part flawless. There is a reason why she throws farther than everyone in FPO and at her size that should speak volumes. And she's in great shape too. But yeah, the move would be to practice max power drives less and less nowadays and focus on short game, touch, and putting to save her arm. Play less events/travel less all will help her too.

The main points of getting a good brace with your front foot, straight pull threw and bending the elbow, not over rotating early or falling forward until the disc is out of her hand she does pretty much flawlessly.

 

[DanJon]

The recent Ultiworld article is interesting.

Here's my take:

She's mad at the PDGA but it seems to be the local organizing committee who chose to move forward with three courses for the upcoming USWDGC.

Which is weird because Mike Batka is quoted as saying that the PDGA told him that only one or two courses should be used for FPO when he put his separate bid in.

She also thinks the courses are too easy and won't have enough time to practice all three properly.

Doesn't this seem like misplaced anger?

Doesn't this also seem like she's discounting all of the work that volunteers put into this event?

 

[EllEstar]

I don't think so. To the first question this is a PDGA Major Tournament, the PDGA should have direct oversight with clear parameters and guidelines to make it the best possible version of that tournament it can be.

In general I'm a fan of the PDGA hosting/organizing/overseeing some of the biggest tournaments, but if they can't get a Major right then that is a big minus to me.

As to the volunteers, I don't think voicing legitimate complaints about an issue discounts the work of everyone involved; I can complain about the selection in a store while being appreciative of the service I got.

I'm sure that everyone working on the tournament has put in their fair share of work with the best intentions and has created a great tournament for a large portion of the competitors, but that's just not what this issue is about; it's about the unacceptable practice environment, scheduling and courses for the professional players at a Major.

Edit to say that of course the PDGA aren't the only ones to blame for these issues, but as someone with the oversight and (hopefully) power to set clear lines and say no, the buck stops with them.

 

[dehaas]

So the courses are too easy but no time to practice?

Sounds like Kona and PP need to get on the same page.

 

[ru4por]

I don't think so. To the first question this is a PDGA Major Tournament, the PDGA should have direct oversight with clear parameters and guidelines to make it the best possible version of that tournament it can be.

In general I'm a fan of the PDGA hosting/organizing/overseeing some of the biggest tournaments, but if they can't get a Major right then that is a big minus to me.

As to the volunteers, I don't think voicing legitimate complaints about an issue discounts the work of everyone involved; I can complain about the selection in a store while being appreciative of the service I got.

I'm sure that everyone working on the tournament has put in their fair share of work with the best intentions and has created a great tournament for a large portion of the competitors, but that's just not what this issue is about; it's about the unacceptable practice environment, scheduling and courses for the professional players at a Major.

Edit to say that of course the PDGA aren't the only ones to blame for these issues, but as someone with the oversight and (hopefully) power to set clear lines and say no, the buck stops with them.

Thanks to DanJon for moving this to this thread.

I completely disagree. I am honestly tired of the whining player. PP does little to nothing to help the local disc golf scene in Northern California. The drive from Stockton (OTB Open) to Auburn (USWDGC) is 1 hour and 15 min. Scheduling is on her. Maybe some of the time she chose to go to Hawaii, could have been used to get into Northern California and practice. My guess is that she does not speak for the entire FPO field. Four days to get out to three courses. This is her career!! Maybe I should let my boss know, that the two day weekend is simply not enough, to allow me to adequately prepare myself for the following week of work.

USWDGC is not a boon for any local club or local economy. It is insulting to the volunteers who spend countless hours on the organization, accommodations, courses....

Maybe some think PP is flying the equality flag, but I don't buy that either. Playing three courses is not a sign of any disrespect, the idea is silly.

If FPO or MPO players want input into courses, rules, payouts.....they should organize, own and run their own tour. If not, pitch in or shut up.

 

[EllEstar]

So the courses are too easy but no time to practice?

Sounds like Kona and PP need to get on the same page.

That doesn't make any sense. A course being too easy isn't like an opponent being way worse than you. A course being too easy means that luck plays a bigger factor since scores will be tighter; less holes that punish bad plays, etc.

We have a world class player in my area that wins every pdga tournament held on our competitive courses by 3-5 strokes/round, but when we play non-sanctioned at easier courses the scores are much tighter, even if he usually wins.

 

[ru4por]

That doesn't make any sense. A course being too easy isn't like an opponent being way worse than you. A course being too easy means that luck plays a bigger factor since scores will be tighter; less holes that punish bad plays, etc.

We have a world class player in my area that wins every pdga tournament held on our competitive courses by 3-5 strokes/round, but when we play non-sanctioned at easier courses the scores are much tighter, even if he usually wins.

I think you are correct....conditionally. If the course is too easy, because it is a wide open, long bomber course, there could be more scoring separation between PP and the field.

I also think that your statement speaks to PP's comments as being pretty self serving.

I don't know PP. I don't really care what she or any pro players do. I do think she handled a complaint in a grossly unprofessional manner. There were several paths she could/should taken, if she wished to express her concerns. None of those involve social media.

 

[biscoe]

USWDGC is not a boon for any local club or local economy. It is insulting to the volunteers who spend countless hours on the organization, accommodations, courses....

I agree with most of your points but hosting USWDGC was definitely a big boost for our club in terms of relationships with the county and local businesses.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I do think she handled a complaint in a grossly unprofessional manner. There were several paths she could/should taken, if she wished to express her concerns. None of those involve social media.

In the interview with Nick and Matt that was linked she was asked what steps she has taken with the PDGA regarding this and she said she "@ed" them on her insta post complaint.

 

[wproct]

Paige Pierce has a very large speaking platform because she has spent much time and effort in developing it, making herself available to her fans and media more than any other single player, IMO. Some will disagree with what she says and that's fair, because no one is completely right all of the time.

 

[DanJon]

She could have literally called the right people at the PDGA (she has their cell phone numbers), talked about her issues and then went on her platforms to say here is my concerns, which I've already addressed with the PDGA and we will have a plan moving forward.

Instead, it has become all about her.

So, is she more interested in elevating women's disc golf, or her own brand?

Hard for me to tell at this point.

Also, doesn't the PDGA literally have a Women's Committee? Did she speak with them beforehand?

 

[ru4por]

She could have literally called the right people at the PDGA (she has their cell phone numbers), talked about her issues and then went on her platforms to say here is my concerns, which I've already addressed with the PDGA and we will have a plan moving forward.

Instead, it has become all about her.

So, is she more interested in elevating women's disc golf, or her own brand?

Hard for me to tell at this point.

Also, doesn't the PDGA literally have a Women's Committee? Did she speak with them beforehand?

I think this is where she has left herself.

Many of these FPO players could/would have traveled to Northern California after Goat Hill on May 9th. This could/should have allowed practice on both the USWDGC courses and the OTB courses. I understand the struggles with scheduling logistics is real for touring players.....but again, this is their career. PP chose to take personal time off. I don't see how that decision isn't the root of most of her issues.

Maybe pro players need a couple weeks to get into town to practice and learn the courses?

PP also has a powerful sponsor, whose voice would certainly carry a lot of weight. A proper phone call/meeting/discussion with the PDGA and DGPT would be FAR more appropriate. Better yet, a group of FPO players.............you know, never mind. Organize, own and run your own tour. This continues to be my resolution for both FPO and MPO touring players.

Christ, I am going to play Ledgestone (as well as several previous Worlds), with far more players than most FPO events. It is my job to take time off work, arrange transportation and accommodations and get out there and make practice time. I consider it MY responsibility, to put myself in the best position to win, not Nate Heinold, the city of Peoria, nor the PDGA.

 

[Steve West]

..
Many of these FPO players could/would have traveled to Northern California after Goat Hill on May 9th. This could/should have allowed practice on both the USWDGC courses and the OTB courses. ...

I wouldn't think any of the top women could get in effective practice rounds while a course is open to the public.

 

[ru4por]

I wouldn't think any of the top women could get in effective practice rounds while a course is open to the public.

Probably right. I have a hard time putting myself in the world, where a week of sub optimal practice and a week of optimal practice is not enough to prepare myself for a weekend of disc golf in a major.

I might suggest that limited practice is an additional skills test. Much like Worlds is for Ams and used to be for pros.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Without looking at social media or watching any interview, is this the standard athlete is asked question/athlete answers question/athlete gets blasted for complaining process?

Watching the Madison Walker preview video, I kind of get it. They were out there sort of walking around lost throwing at blind holes with no idea where they need to land and not necessarily knowing what is considered out of bounds. It'd be tough to pick up 3 courses like that in a week.

 

[Ahildy13]

I don't think it should be that hard. This book is pretty detailed.
https://final9sports.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2021-uswdgc-caddybook-finally.pdf

Some people are very bad with navigation though.

 

[klodkrawler05]

If these are professionals I'm not sure how equating anything amateurs deal with is even remotely comparable. I'm guessing Dechambeu isn't trying to get out to the course at 7am to beat the locals to the first tee and then dealing with folks talking to him and coming up for autographs and pictdures every other hole. We don't usually see Tom Brady figuring a quick warm up the day before a playoff game is sufficient because he had to work late at his 9-5 and couldn't get out to the field during the week until he started his vacation time.

Coming from the world of autocross where half the challenge is to learn a brand new course as quickly as possible and then drive through it as fast as you can, I'm excited to watch the players try to tackle 3 courses in 3 days. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out, if 1 course doesn't play to your game can you make up enough strokes on the other 2?
But it does seem odd that a Major is only able to close down 3 local courses for the 3 tournament days and 1 day before hand for practice. Maybe a large A-tier, but a major? eh.

 

[Rastnav]

Probably right. I have a hard time putting myself in the world, where a week of sub optimal practice and a week of optimal practice is not enough to prepare myself for a weekend of disc golf in a major.

I might suggest that limited practice is an additional skills test. Much like Worlds is for Ams and used to be for pros.

But it's only a single day of optimal practice? On 3 separate courses no less?

When I see in that ultiworld article that in the bidding for 2019 the PDGA said that they "preferred a single course, but no more than two" it says to me that the PDGA was already aware of the issue, so the presumption that behind the scenes conversations haven't occurred at some point seems a little off. The preference is already known and articulated, but it's clearly not enough of a priority for the PDGA to have actually made it happen yet.

ETA: and I'm not saying the PDGA is necessarily wrong here. Just that this seems part of an ongoing disagreement/dissatisfaction, which are usually messy in resolution.

 

[Dcinmd]

I'm guessing Dechambeu isn't trying to get out to the course at 7am to beat the locals to the first tee and then dealing with folks talking to him and coming up for autographs and pictdures every other hole.

How many people are on a disc golf course during a week day while school still in session that are not part of the tournament?

5? 10?

 

[Ahildy13]

How many people are on a disc golf course during a week day while school still in session that are not part of the tournament?

5? 10?

I want to agree with you, but I also know a lot of DG'ers don't work traditional 9-5s