Paige Pierce #29190

[BogeyNoMore]

Re: FPO 1000 ratings -

I'm not an expert on the ratings system by any stretch, but ...


Given that there currently are more FPO players routinely getting rounds approaching 1000 (Cat, Mandujano, Oliva, Bloomros, Salonen, etc), doesn't it help some like Kristen when so many propagators have highly rated rounds?

When Paige was at her most dominant, 2nd place was often double digit strokes behind her.

Wouldn't the field's relatively low ratings have made it harder for Pierce to hit 1000?

Or do I have it backwards?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Re: FPO 1000 ratings -

I'm not an expert on the ratings system by any stretch, but ...


Given that there currently are more FPO players routinely getting rounds approaching 1000 (Cat, Mandujano, Oliva, Bloomros, Salonen, etc), doesn't it help some like Kristen when so many propagators have highly rated rounds?

When Paige was at her most dominant, 2nd place was often double digit strokes behind her.

Wouldn't the field's relatively low ratings have made it harder for Pierce to hit 1000?

Or do I have it backwards?

Backwards. The number of propagators with the lowest ratings shooting poorly relative to their ratings is what boosts the SSA and resulting ratings of those avoiding trouble at the top.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Thanks Chuck!

 

[Steve West]

Backwards. The number of propagators with the lowest ratings shooting poorly relative to their ratings is what boosts the SSA and resulting ratings of those avoiding trouble at the top.

Propogators in FPO can have really low ratings. Does that explain this:

 

[jenb]

Don't propagators have to be rated 800 or better? Performance by those low rated ladies can't impact the outcome.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Don't propagators have to be rated 800 or better? Performance by those low rated ladies can't impact the outcome.

Propagators now go down to 700. Ideally, there need to be propagators at ratings below 700 but only when involved in rating rounds with divisions of players where all are rated under say 825 or so.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Propogators in FPO can have really low ratings. Does that explain this:

Yes. When Roger did some tests over the years to determine whether we should include propagators under 800 down to 700, he noted they had a higher standard deviation in performance than those above 800. However, they were needed to provide more propagators for lower FA and older FP divisions, so they were added. The more the layouts played by lower rated divisions with players under 850 were short enough to be no more than say one par higher per hole than their power/distance level (like we've been discussing) the more appropriate those lower rated propagators performed.

However, when we're looking at the range of ratings in FPO in A-tier and higher events, there are quite a few more lower rated FPO propagators with ratings say 150-200 points in distance levels below many of the courses they have to play, especially if those hole distances are designed more for MPO (a current topic of conversation). These lower rated propagators are more likely to play proportionally worse than their expected level relative to their rating which pumps up the SSA and boosts the higher rated players' round ratings more than expected for their performance.

 

[Steve West]

Yes. ...

So, one way for M players to get a free boost in ratings is to get TDs to end the silly practice of changing just one hole for the F course (in a misguided effort to protect Ms from the low-rating "cooties" of Fs).

Right?

 

[jenb]

Cooties are for winners.

 

[Cgkdisc]

So, one way for M players to get a free boost in ratings is to get TDs to end the silly practice of changing just one hole for the F course (in a misguided effort to protect Ms from the low-rating "cooties" of Fs).

Right?

Yes. Some TDs don't do it only for FPO but for am divisions also. And then they're surprised when the procedure backfires and the Ams get better ratings for the same score on the presumably easier layout with one hole shorter. Much better to change 4 to 6 holes shorter versus just one.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Responding to discussion of Paige from another thread...

If Paige was finishing in second or at least lead card, that would be more meaningful.

She's been off the mark pretty much since she lost World's to Cat. Not intended to make excuses, but she's not been at the top of her game.

I hope she gets it together and returns to form. It will be much more entertaining to see both playing well.

Agree with every bit of this.

I'm not gonna poo-poo whatever injury was ailing her this weekend, but...

She was obviously pretty much in form at 2021 world's, and just had a crappy shot at the absolute worst time. And she just hasn't been the same since.

A lot has happened since then, (Alyssa, home in Pensacola, etc.), and there were some interviews where she mentioned losing the drive to excel and something about her father pushing too hard/often.

Most importantly, I hope her head is in a good place and she's happy.

I can't help but think that a player who's demonstrated ability to the degree that she has, will rekindle the fire to perform at that level again. I'd love to see her battling Kristin for wins.

I'm still convinced that with the movie she was making that year, she was planning to win her 6th then ride off into the sunset.

That may have taken a toll, too.

 

[jenb]

Responding to discussion of Paige from another thread...



Agree with every bit of this.

I'm not gonna poo-poo whatever injury was ailing her this weekend, but...

She was obviously pretty much in form at 2021 world's, and just had a crappy shot at the absolute worst time. And she just hasn't been the same since.

A lot has happened since then, (Alyssa, home in Pensacola, etc.), and there were some interviews where she mentioned losing the drive to excel and something about her father pushing too hard/often.

Most importantly, I hope her head is in a good place and she's happy.

I can't help but think that a player who's demonstrated ability to the degree that she has, will rekindle the fire to perform at that level again. I'd love to see her battling Kristin for wins.



That may have taken a toll, too.

Paige said in the past that her goal was to become the first 1000 rated FPO player. Doubt it helped her motivation for others to rapidly approach that mark. And, iirc, she stated in an interview she doesn't think she's the best FPO player "right now." The bar has been set much higher and she's at an age where her efforts to reach it will achieve short lived success at best. Daunting, I'd think. But if anyone can do it …

 

[Skamanda]

I hope her head is in a good place and she's happy.

This is all I hope for her. I don't need her to entertain me. Disc golf is fun to watch, and fun to play. Everyone deserves peace, happiness, and joy in life. She's proven to herself, and the world, that she can outdo the best of them - and nobody was even owed that.

I'd rather her take time off to let her shoulder heal, or at least take it easy enough on the course that it can, than see her ruin her ability to play by trying to push herself just to try and win another title, or get to 1000 rated.

 

[Mocheez]

I'd rather her take time off to let her shoulder heal, or at least take it easy enough on the course that it can, than see her ruin her ability to play by trying to push herself just to try and win another title, or get to 1000 rated.

Agreed, 8 years after trying to play through a shoulder injury, Will Schusterick is now putting with his left hand and down 80 rating points.

 

[txmxer]

Agreed with all of the above. I would love to see her back out there in peak form, but that's her call. It takes tremendous effort and commitment to do what she's done. And there is always a point where it comes to an end.

 

[jenb]

Agreed with all of the above. I would love to see her back out there in peak form, but that's her call. It takes tremendous effort and commitment to do what she's done. And there is always a point where it comes to an end.

She doesn't need to win worlds or be ranked number 1 for fans to continue to cheer her on. It may affect her remuneration from sponsors though and hence her ability to tour as in the past.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

She doesn't need to win worlds or be ranked number 1 for fans to continue to cheer her on. It may affect her remuneration from sponsors though and hence her ability to tour as in the past.

In a great many ways, Paige doesn't have a effin thing to prove... to anyone.

5 World Championships with three 2nds and a 3rd from 2011-2021 (someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that). During that decade, Paige was quite literally, THE player to beat in FPO, setting the bar for everyone who followed.

While all good things come to an end, you don't typically see an athlete's performance drop off so sharply/suddenly to that degree, especially in a non-contact sport.

As a fan of the sport, I'm simply saying it would be great to see someone consistently battling Kristin for the FPO crown, and Paige seems to be the logical choice to do that. It's just one of those things that's bound to leave fans wanting more.

 

[lee76007]

The past few years when I've watched Paige play, I think back to January. 2021 when she posted videos of her off season workout in Hawaii. I saw someone who had very little enthusiasm for the upcoming season, and since then Disc Golf seems more like a grind to her, than fun. Granted, from time to time she can still motivate herself to win or place well, or it seems to be more often just going thru the motions. Since she finished so far back this past weekend, it would have been interesting to have watched her go thru the process. It just seems to me she's not having fun.

The last time I thought she was having fun was three years ago in the Avocado Open a short time after the tour shut down. She was playing with three friends Nate Perkins, Philo, and Rico. It didn't seem to matter she finished 4th, but not hard to tell she was having a good time with it. Just before the tour started that same year, she and Nate Perkins did commentary in bath robes, funny to see, and she was laughing it up. When the tour shut down, I went back the previous two years to get my fix and watched her with Ricky and James Conrad participate in Joe's vs Pro's or something like that, and she was having a good time, mixing it up with spectators and enjoyed being with them. It seems to me with non-tour events she can still have a good time, but not aware of her in these types of events the past few years.

Seems to me something has changed with her and at least with Tour Disc Golf. I wonder if she has thought if she could just walk away from Disc Golf and not disappoint, would she just do it. Heather Young did it.

 

[Shallows]

there were some interviews where she mentioned losing the drive to excel and something about her father pushing too hard/often.

Current performances indicate that her father was pushing the right amount.

 

[wproct]

Don't know how many follow Instagram, but Paige posts a good reflection on the last tournament and her injury issues. She says that she will not be playing Jonesboro, giving her body a chance to rest.