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pdga b teir
- Thread starter schrot42
- Start date
tdschrock1
Double Eagle Member
Thanks for the advice, but I disagree completely. It would be better for all player and TD expectations if there were some type of breakdown like:
Entry fee: 50
Players pack: 15
Course and TD costs: 5
Amount to charity/points series/etc: 0
Amount to Payout 30
This can easily be figured out and posted before the event. (On occasion, some do)
A step farther is to go to percentages (These are much more difficult and vary based on field size):
We will be paying out the top 40% of each division. First place will receive 20%+ of the divisional prize
If it's a PDGA event, these items are already standardized.
The only variable is how much money is in the prize pool, which is affected by (1) how much was taken out for the players packs and (2) how much, if any, the TD is increasing it due to sponsorships.
Most of them?
Of course, our local player's pack is store credit, so I get to pick my disc/gear/whatever. If there's any player's pack disc that is NOT in my bag, it's because I'm tinkering/have replaced a disc in the rotation.
The TD I assist does payouts during the first round, and posts them so it's viewable between rounds. # of spots paid out (closest to 33% without going under), how much each position is getting paid, and the math he used to arrive at those totals.
This is somewhat of a side issue, but around here players packs are usually, all or in part, a voucher with which a player can choose for a good selection of discs, and sometimes other merchandise.
I'm a big fan of this, because it ensures you'll get something you want. (I'm an even bigger fan of no players pack at all, but I seem to be a distinct minority on that).
Regardless, if I pay my fee and get to compete in an organized event, I'm not complaining about anything I'm given. I may end up throwing it away---after the event---but I'm not complaining.
tdschrock1
Double Eagle Member
This is 100% what I am asking for - perhaps this process could be simplified and encouraged for TDs, although I would be ok with slightly less info if it could be available sooner. Its simply nice to know if I'm competing for ~$50 or ~$200
I understand the frustration in getting a players' pack that's "valued" at $50 when it's a crappy shirt, a mini, a koozie, a pencil, ten stickers, and a $5 coupon at a local restaurant.
But in the case of tournaments where the players' pack is a merchandise voucher, do you expect the TD to sell you the merchandise at wholesale prices instead of retail? When a TD gets some free donations for the tournament and adds those into the players' pack, do you expect the TD to account a value of $0 for that?
JRW III
Double Eagle Member
There is a debate as to whether the tournament fee should go more towards payout or players pack. At the end of the day, it is personal preference. What I think is important, is that when a player signs up, he/she knows what type of tournament it is and what he/she can expect so that they can decide whether they want to play or not.
Personally, I prefer high payout / low players packs. For the tournaments I run, we disclose on the registration page what is going into the payout. For our upcoming tournament, that is entry fee less $2 PDGA fee and $4 admin fee (Disc Golf Scene fee and PayPal fee is paid directly by the player). Example, Advanced is $48 with $42 going to the payout. We will have a disc and swag players pack, but nothing additional is taken out of the entry fee to cover the players pack. Payout is done using the PDGA standard payout calculation with top 50% Ams paid.
Personally, I prefer high payout / low players packs. For the tournaments I run, we disclose on the registration page what is going into the payout. For our upcoming tournament, that is entry fee less $2 PDGA fee and $4 admin fee (Disc Golf Scene fee and PayPal fee is paid directly by the player). Example, Advanced is $48 with $42 going to the payout. We will have a disc and swag players pack, but nothing additional is taken out of the entry fee to cover the players pack. Payout is done using the PDGA standard payout calculation with top 50% Ams paid.
tdschrock1
Double Eagle Member
THIS.
I have personal preferences (similar to yours) of how the player money should be distributed, but at the end of the day it is 100% up to the TD. I am ok with this, I simply would like some idea of what decisions were made rather than reverse engineering it after the payout is given.
If we have more information, I (and other players) can select events that meet their expectations.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
2 all beef patties - $.40
special sauce- $.05
lettuce- $.02
cheese- $.10
pickles- $.02
onions- $.01
sesame seed bun- $.30
special sauce- $.05
lettuce- $.02
cheese- $.10
pickles- $.02
onions- $.01
sesame seed bun- $.30
That process used to be required for PDGA events. No idea why it ceased to be a requirement, but it is still a good practice that is followed by a lot of experienced TDs I know. I do it in my events.
I used to publish the breakdown of entry fees right on the event flyer ($X to player pack, $Y to fees, $Z to payout, etc). What that brought on was two things that I found unwelcome. The first were the folks who read the breakdown as some sort of a la carte menu so when they signed up, they wanted to reduce their entry by not buying into the payout or the player pack or even not paying certain fees ("I'm not a PDGA member so I shouldn't have to pay the PDGA player fee" and so on). The second were the nitpickers questioning how things were broken down...criticizing how much was allocated to the player pack versus the payout or how much the fees were, etc.
So now I will list the sorts of things that the entry fee will cover...player pack, fees, trophies, etc...but I don't break it down to dollar amounts until during or after the event with the rest of the payout details.
:clap::clap::clap:
We can't offer hard numbers until we know how many people are going to show up, and in what division.
We could offer a formula, but I'm not sure how many people care, or care enough. I can't recall anyone ever asking me in advance. As a player, I know that certain events and TDs tend to balance the players pack and prize payouts differently, so I sort of know before entering how it's likely to be done.
takman
Eagle Member
- Joined
- May 22, 2009
- Messages
- 603
I would have questioned the payout regardless of the players pack. 5 spots out of 20 is only 25%. Should have been at least 8 spots or 40%. Isn't this still the rule?
Yes. I missed that. But the standard is 45 or 50%, which would have made for really small payouts.
kenjiac
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,080
As a club president, TD/CoTD to provide this information ahead of time creates more work for an already overworked unpaid volunteer. There are players that don't show, switch division, or some added sponsorship comes in that makes these figures change. When we hold events we post the payouts at lunch time after 1st round when you know none of the information is going to change. We also try to have at least 3 different discs with a tourney stamp to choose from so that players can get something they want. If all the choices are not something you throw you can always sell it to get the value of the disc as cash. We also buy at wholesale and value at retail when we give players packs and payouts. This is how my club affords to rent pavilion, pay for sanctioning, and pay for insurance. We also provide a ton of goodies in ctp prizes usually at least 8-10 ctps for different divisions and we have side games to play after the rounds to occupy the players while the TD finalizes the scores/payouts for tourney awards. Most of the time it's a ring of fire game and/or ctp throwoff. If we didn't do the wholesale/retail difference we would not be able to provide these things for our tournaments.
True, though I'll confess to having some of the same feelings in the years before I got involved in running tournaments. I used to get a little bent out of shape when a local tournament was trophy-only; after a few years I found out that they were paying off the baskets with tournament proceeds, and once the debt was settled, the payouts went up.
JRW III
Double Eagle Member
If the TD has the ability and structure to offer hard numbers / formula, that is great. However, many can't. I think what is more important is a general idea of whether it is a tournament where most of my fee goes to payout, players pack, or a hybrid. Many players get to know a club/company/individual and get a sense of how they run things, but for new players, out of towners, etc..., it is nice to know what the general type of tournament it is going to be.
Yeah, the ultiworld article about players packs just came out. I don't know why we (most disc golfers, excluding those for whom it's their living) aren't happy with getting anything at all. We have all these events that we pay to get into and compete without expectation for getting something out of it -- fun runs, softball leagues, bowling leagues, darts tournaments -- and on and on and on. But for some reason, in disc golf, I need to get something out of if before I even start. The only reason there is a "debate" about player pack, its value, and how to count it, is because we're expected something more than the spirit of an organized competitive event. But that's our history.
Biscoe, I like it.
