Power Generation

[HyzerUniBomber]

I lay in bed last night till 1am with my brain running quite literally on turbo charge. I haven't felt this kind of mixed excitement and head shaking "unlocking" sensation for probably 2 years.

Let me preface this by saying that I have quite a few questions in this soon to be monster post - so I'll try to keep them concise when I get to them. If you want to follow my thoughts - so be it... needless to say I've been throwing from a 1-step with more ejection speed than ever.

I'm still doing some stuff wrong - I can see all the stuff myself - so no need to diagram unless you're bored, but a few changes have really REALLY given my 1-step more power.

Background: I've always felt that there's a number of ways that accurate and usable power get generated:

1. Holding the rim
2. Elbow extension
3. Leveraging with your entire body
4. Shifting weight forward
5. Creating a powerful rotational axis
6. Catching your forward momentum against the braced plant frontside

The problem for me is that not all of those things seem to work the same when I'm throwing with 1-step vs an x-step.

Example - to generate any real power from a 1-step I have to load up the backside and sort of create some weight to pull forward. I can feel the heaviness of the backside and where AND how it feels to leverage that weight is COMPLETELY different than when I'm throwing with an x-step.

In terms of hockey - it's the difference between a wrist shot and a slap shot.
In golf terms - it's the difference between a happy gilmore and a 1-step.

Tangent - it seems to be harder to leverage with your whole body from a 1-step with the disc too far out front... but the power gained from getting deeper into the power pocket seems to make up for that.

Premise / Theory
An x-step should hopefully give you all the initial momentum needed, so as long as you get the movement setup right and engaged properly, you're not really driving the momentum forward as you are getting everything moving forward and then translating that into a split second of tight rotation.



One of the biggest changes - was trying to get the Nose over the Toes thanks to SW22 - when I do that more, it's like the upper body becomes a part of the momentum - the shoulder and arm come through FASTER. More upright, the upper body is less engaged and slower. Tilted over the toes, it engages.

I've been overthrowing every single hole by 50' because I'm coming out of the hand faster than ever. One hole I used to throw with a TeeBird, went to a Truth, and was still 50' long - and is now a Gator shot or a Jokeri.

One way to force myself to get forward has been to lower the backswing, so that when I pull the disc forward (hopefully on a flat and straight line) towards my right pec - and shift forward and down - I've brought the disc into the right spot for the power zone.

DOWN? Yes, I'm shifting down with relation to the top of the backswing when I'm on my back toe and upright. If I put the disc straight back from that position and pull it flat, I'll often leave the disc high and pull the disc forward and downward. Leave it low, it comes forward FLAT.

That may seems like a trivial thing, but lowering the disc engages muscles that I didn't use before.

So big question is how to marry the momentum generation of a 1-step that has me throwing almost 400' flat - and when I annied them, over 400' with an x-step. The 2 things feel UTTERLY different when the x-step creates the initial surge of power and leverage.

Should we just say, "The momentum build is done because we used an x-step, don't try to add more by pushing with the feet, just let them initiate the hips the way we know they should and that'll set everything in motion"? Whenever I try to drive the hips open, it seems to throw everything off... but with a 1-step if I don't drive the body forward - the thing falls apart.

Should it just be that an x-step is like the 1-step, but we add 2 steps slowly in front... which seems stupid. :wall::wall::wall:

 

[zj1002]

It really is as simple as bend the knees, get on your toes, and move forward. The body works itself out if you finish the body/disc on the line it needs to be on.

The most important part of the first few steps in the x-step or any run up is to set the body up in the right positions to be explosive and also put the disc down the correct line(as you know). Dave Feldberg is a great example of how simple that can be. Everything gets primed to explode on the final part of his x-step by the simple pendulum swing of his arm. This even lowers his shoulder and "pull line".

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

A huge part of why the x-step works is it sets the body up by getting things moving. The value comes less from adding forward momentum and more from the ability to redirect that forward motion into rotational motion at key points - hips, torso, shoulders. And there's the rub - get any of those timed wrong in relation to the others and power transference just isn't there. I've tried simplifying timing with fewer steps with some success, but getting the train rolling from, say, a one step, is harder than tapping into the abundant energy an x-step gives. Simpler, but more effort and less potential for proper hip and shoulder opening up.

 

[Oldno7mlb]

will schusterick talks about pulling the arm lower in a new driving clinic by ccdg. anyway good stuff as usual (hubs) .

 

[ThrowBot]

Oh man, I saw this thread title and all I could think of was:

...I need to work less and play disc more!

Interesting insight into 1-step vs x-step, HUB. Question for you on a related topic:

Do you think differently about the reach back when throwing 1-step, x-step, or even just stand & deliver? Throwing with a full x-step run up it is very easy for me to think about working around the disc, but that's lost for a 1-step or S&D throw.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Do you think differently about the reach back when throwing 1-step, x-step, or even just stand & deliver? Throwing with a full x-step run up it is very easy for me to think about working around the disc, but that's lost for a 1-step or S&D throw.

Absolutely I think and feel very different things. A 1-step and a planted foot throw can even be done 2 very different ways.

In the video in this thread, it's like a feeling of creating a mass of shifting of weight that could pull the arm off of a donkey... SW22 throws this way. He is indeed like bear ripping the roof off of a honda.

Vs.

https://youtu.be/liuPgsicl9Y?t=322

(5:22 if that doesn't jump you in)

Which is less shifting and more wide rail power.

The problem there, is that the 2 don't seem to mesh at all. The balance feels different, the way you guide the disc in or collapse in feels different.

I'm not saying one way is better or worse, it's just two different contraptions for developing power. I would actually give the nod in terms of 1-step power to the "straight pull", contingent upon you being able to get a good forward weight shift.

... now to your question, if I'm x-stepping I do try to leave the disc behind and work my body around it. When I'm 1-stepping it's like swinging the disc back low behind me as I stride forward.

 

[sidewinder22]

DOWN? Yes, I'm shifting down with relation to the top of the backswing when I'm on my back toe and upright. If I put the disc straight back from that position and pull it flat, I'll often leave the disc high and pull the disc forward and downward. Leave it low, it comes forward FLAT.

That may seems like a trivial thing, but lowering the disc engages muscles that I didn't use before.

Low man wins in leverage.

Should we just say, "The momentum build is done because we used an x-step, don't try to add more by pushing with the feet, just let them initiate the hips the way we know they should and that'll set everything in motion"? Whenever I try to drive the hips open, it seems to throw everything off... but with a 1-step if I don't drive the body forward - the thing falls apart.

Should it just be that an x-step is like the 1-step, but we add 2 steps slowly in front... which seems stupid. :wall::wall::wall:

Yes, although it's the one-leg with steps added. If your stance is wider than your shoulders, and your rear foot is pushing on the ground still, you should still be in the reachback/backswing/transition.

 

[Mocheez]

I was working on getting my head over my toes during my lunch break today. It felt awkward and I was completely missing the hit but the disc was going just as far or farther than with my normal throwing motion.